tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post5646538702241577746..comments2023-05-14T06:20:54.641-05:00Comments on Sarah's Daughter: What if...He intervenesSarahsDaughterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11070845597474113030noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-69177288635962555782016-06-22T12:06:06.236-05:002016-06-22T12:06:06.236-05:00In the examples provided by SarahsDaughter (Abraha...In the examples provided by SarahsDaughter (Abraham and Sarah, the woman in the story), God intervened and made a way so that the woman did not sin. It appears from the Abraham/Sarah stories that wives would be held innocent of sin if husband ordered it and it actually happened.<br /><br />One thing I note concerning submission to authority is that God ordered Abraham to murder his own son - which would appear to be a violation of God's command not to murder. Abraham submitted to God and was about to go through with obedience when God intervened and provided an alternative.<br /><br />That's exactly what happened with Abraham/Sarah and the woman who wrote in.<br /><br />It would appear that those under authority are to trust in God to protect them from illegal/sinful orders.robwbrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17763598015642738814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-12715437250951849442015-06-10T13:26:11.741-05:002015-06-10T13:26:11.741-05:00No problem. Yes I believe that. Dont get me wrong,...No problem. Yes I believe that. Dont get me wrong, I think a wifes default position towards her husband should be trust and obedience without fear that its a sin. The overwhelming majority of the time its a legitimate command and where theres doubt she should err on the side of obedience, but the Bible also tells us to be wise and that includes knowing the rare occasion to disobey ones present authority when its clearly a sin. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14697048704401317216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-1949883264676015512015-06-10T12:53:10.070-05:002015-06-10T12:53:10.070-05:00Thank you for your response, David.
I would poin...Thank you for your response, David. <br /><br /><i>I would point out to her that it's not and expect her compliance.</i><br /><br />From this I gather that you are of the belief that you are the final arbiter, the one in authority and head of your home. With this, we are on the very same page. SarahsDaughterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11070845597474113030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-22806690983975021472015-06-10T12:47:22.119-05:002015-06-10T12:47:22.119-05:00I very much value respect and kindness so if she s...I very much value respect and kindness so if she says she can't do it, because she believes/its a sin, in a respectful, non-argumentative manner, I would be much more open to her side than I would be if she was rude and condescending about it. If it's something sinful (and I can't imagine commanding her to do something sinful), I would expect her to show me how it is disobeying God's Word and to ask me to reconsider. I'm not attempting to boast here, but I'm usually a very reasonable person when it comes to arguments made in good-faith, so it would probably be received well by me, even though I'd be surprised since I almost certainly know the Bible better than her. If she merely believes its sinful when it's not, I would point out to her that it's not and expect her compliance. If it's not a sin and she simply doesn't want to do it because she's in rebellion, then that changes the situation entirely, in which case she would find life at home significantly less to her liking. <br /><br />Regarding her opinion of me, it depends. Knowing the nature of women, I'm not expecting brilliance on the level of a Talmudic scholar, but I do expect some level of moral wisdom if she's submiting to me in obedience to God and capable of pointing out to me a sin that I missed. I wouldn't grovel, I would probably simply say, “I see, you're right, that is a sin, I apologize. What's for dinner?” There's no need to make a production out of it, and a man with alpha characteristics (or one that she is attracted to) can afford a display of “weakness” every now and then without it negatively impacting him. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14697048704401317216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-31997168210216635182015-06-10T12:05:15.702-05:002015-06-10T12:05:15.702-05:00I've got another question for you. Imagine a s...I've got another question for you. Imagine a scenario where you have told your wife to do something and she in the most respectful manner she could said to you, "forgive me, I believe doing that would be sinful, is there something else I could do to please you?" (recognizing, please, that this is not at all the way women actually express their noncompliance in the real world) - as a man how do you believe you would receive it? And what if it is something that you believe is not sinful (either you are blind to it being sinful, or you are not a believer, or are in rebellion yourself). How would this, even respectful and kind, admonishment be received? Also, if you would acquiesce, perhaps apologize, tell her she's right, etc. how do you think that would effect her opinion of you, attraction to you, or security in your decision making from then on, knowing what you know of the nature of women?SarahsDaughterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11070845597474113030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-45790742830427185902015-06-10T11:46:25.431-05:002015-06-10T11:46:25.431-05:00No, I think he simply saw the possibility for enga...No, I think he simply saw the possibility for engaging in something that enticed him, so he decided to go ahead and try it. No, he wasn't testing her, he was actively attempting to engage in sinful behavior. He probably did not know it was a sin (again, I don't know this guy so the extent of his faith is something I can only guess at), but it sounds to me like even if he did it would not have mattered; what got him to stop was one specific verse that stuck out to him, which is probably a combination of his wife voicing her concern and God speaking to his conscience. <br /><br />It risks confusing the issue by saying her obedience to her husband her was the sin. The sin was lust, her obeying her husband had little to do with it as she already wanted to do it in the first place. Had she voiced her concern, her husband ignored it and commanded her to perform the sin, and she went a long with it, then it would be an instance of obeying a sinful command. <br /><br />In either case, the greater sin belongs to the husband because he should not have commanded her to sin in the first place. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14697048704401317216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-87145523161158564262015-06-10T11:10:45.345-05:002015-06-10T11:10:45.345-05:00you cannot sin that good may come of it
Correct m... <i>you cannot sin that good may come of it</i><br /><br />Correct my misunderstanding here: Do you believe he sought to sin so good would come of it? Testing his wife's obedience? Or do you see that he might not have been obeying the Word due to not knowing it with clarity - which was revealed to him <i>after</i> she respectfully voiced the concern she was having? <br /><br />Do you believe that she was in sin by going along with the plan? ie. do you believe her obedience to her husband in this instance was sin? SarahsDaughterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11070845597474113030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-82611396122066024602015-06-10T11:00:45.252-05:002015-06-10T11:00:45.252-05:00"I do not intend to get into a biblical debat...<b>"I do not intend to get into a biblical debate with you so I will not continue down that road, my apologies. Instead, if you would, and any others reading who believe the woman in this story should not have "submitted in everything," please provide the example of what you believe she should have done differently at the point in which her husband still wanted to go through with the sinful act. How should she have relayed to her husband her noncompliance to what he told her he wanted to do? Do you believe that should she have done what you would suggest, the outcome would have been the same?" </b><br /><br />No worries. She should have said, “Forgive me, but I can't do that. It's a sin and goes against the Word of God” in as respectfully a manner as possible. Perhaps, I don't know her husband from Adam, but whether or not the outcome is the same is irrelevant: you cannot sin that good may come of it. <br /><br /><b>Also, can you see, from the outcome that did happen, the good that came of her faith to submit in everything?</b> <br /><br />Yes, it was a positive outcome, and God can bring good from the bad, but this situation strikes me more as tempting the Lord, as in, you expect Him to save you from a situation that could be avoided by refusing to go into it. God does that, from time to time, but He also saves those who stand up to an illegitimate command from a legitimate authority (Pharoah, Xerxes, the Pharisees). Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14697048704401317216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-15399529374136182172015-06-10T10:36:11.232-05:002015-06-10T10:36:11.232-05:00David-093,
I do not intend to get into a biblical...David-093, <br />I do not intend to get into a biblical debate with you so I will not continue down that road, my apologies. Instead, if you would, and any others reading who believe the woman in this story should not have "submitted in everything," please provide the example of what you believe she should have done differently at the point in which her husband still wanted to go through with the sinful act. <br /><br />How should she have relayed to her husband her noncompliance to what he told her he wanted to do? Do you believe that should she have done what you would suggest, the outcome would have been the same? <br /><br />Also, can you see, from the outcome that did happen, the good that came of her faith to submit in everything? SarahsDaughterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11070845597474113030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-85227646640057075232015-06-10T10:23:14.312-05:002015-06-10T10:23:14.312-05:00With the exception of Abraham and Sarah, your exam...With the exception of Abraham and Sarah, your examples are not examples of "the two shall be one flesh" covenant with God which is marriage to which very special and specific instruction was given. SarahsDaughterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11070845597474113030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-13574562065895790022015-06-10T10:17:05.892-05:002015-06-10T10:17:05.892-05:00There is no Scriptural support for absolute submis...There is no Scriptural support for absolute submission from either wife to husband or subject to king. This is what happens when you use one verse instead of looking at the rest of the Bible. Paul also says we're to submit to our rulers (Romans 13:1-7), and yet in Exodus the midwives directly disobeyed the Pharaoh: <br /><br />"The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live." Exodus 1:17-19. <br /><br />And God rewarded them for it. Absolute submission to authority is not commanded by Scripture, but general obedience to authority, even in matters not morally clear, is expected (Abraham telling Sarah to say she was his sister would fall under this). You're also aware of the verse Acts 5:29 where Peter is told by his authorities to not preach the Gospel and Peter replies, "It is better to obey God than Man" and continues to preach. Romans 13:1-2 says that whoever rebels against the authorities disobeys God, yet here we have instances of God directly blessing people who did just that. It is clear from Scripture that absolute submission to the point of sinning is not mandated by God. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14697048704401317216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-43666570692229951822015-06-09T14:24:59.697-05:002015-06-09T14:24:59.697-05:00While every guy I know is potentially attracted to...While every guy I know is potentially attracted to other females, it doesn't work the same way for men as women. We are attracted by the visual but that doesn't mean its an overwhelming attraction. A well sexed male can see lots of other women who are more attractive than his wife and still be happy with what he has at home. <br /><br />When scripture tells us to "let her breasts satisfy you always" its not a suggestion, or even something particularly difficult to do. Guys who get all they could want from their wife, and make an effort to guard their eyes and heart, have no problem enjoying their wife for life.<br /><br />BUT if we get away form that its easy to let our eyes and mind roam and if the mind is roaming its easier for the rest of us to follow. I think that's what happened in your scenario. Res Ipsahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16433725505878267643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-73942468419398656922015-06-09T13:20:20.636-05:002015-06-09T13:20:20.636-05:00What could / should he done differently that would...<i>What could / should he done differently that would have been acceptable to the female churharian?</i><br /><br />Yes, your list does seem to mirror what women are informed they should do in response to when husbands are tempted though #4 is frivorce and rape him of all of his money. <br /><br /><i>I think most guys if offered this kind of fantasy sexual encounter by their wife would be tempted to do it.</i><br /><br />Certainly! Though everything that followed the fantasy was a slippery slope down Satan's cauldron, what she did do was express something honestly to her husband. Though he was tempted himself and was not able to wash her in the Word immediately, a new level of intimacy has definitely been developed in this marriage. <br /><br />The insecurity she had within her is a form of coveting. It is sin. This exposed it. I love what Sy had to say (video in my previous post) "Either you tell on your sin or it will tell on you." <br /><br />When women can openly confront their sins of coveting and repent of them they'll experience a calm that is hard to describe. I remember it in my own life. I could never understand how women could be so at peace with knowing that their husbands are physically attracted to other women. I was very jealous and insecure (covetous). That crap can eat a woman alive. It stresses the adrenal system with the constant fight or flight rush and leads to poor health. It is most often suppressed with SSRI's now which sadly have their own myriad of health risks. I remember a point in my life that I'd rather "not feel" anymore than to keep feeling the way I was and was tempted to get on those drugs. God has a much healthier offering for this. <br /><br /><br />SarahsDaughterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11070845597474113030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-2728827186636421652015-06-09T11:49:56.925-05:002015-06-09T11:49:56.925-05:00I was rethinking this post last night. I started ...I was rethinking this post last night. I started doing the math on this and I see it breaking down differently.<br /><br />Wife has immoral sexual fantasy<br />+<br />Tells husband about it<br />+<br />They jointly fantasize about doing it<br />+<br />They jointly check into making it happen<br />+<br />Wife's insecurity about her attractiveness causes her to get cold feet<br />+<br />Husband is still into doing it<br />=<br />All his damn fault for not being more of a spiritual leader in his home.<br /><br />I agree that God is going to hold the man responsible for his marriage and home. I'm not addressing that point. What could / should he done differently that would have been acceptable to the female churharian?<br /><br />1. Not allow his wife to watch R rated movies?<br />2. Divorced her when she told him about her fantasy for being a bi-curious whore? <br />3. Confine her to the home and only allow her to go out when accompanied by himself and covered in a hijab?<br />4. Take her out of the city and stone her to death?<br /><br />I think most guys if offered this kind of fantasy sexual encounter by their wife would be tempted to do it. If the wife brought it up, did the research/advertising to find another women to participate and then after months of letting her husband think it was going to happen started to talk about backing out, the man might be a little frustrated. Common already, the sexual anticipation on this scenario for a guy is greater than "honey I shaved my legs and the kids are at grandma's tonight".<br /><br />Was this situation sinful? Of course. Was it all his fault or was he some how the one leading them down the wrong path? SHE OFFERED! She brought the apple. He wanted a bite. She started rethinking it and he still wanted a bite. Then she tried to spiritualize things, not because of a deeply held faith in God, but because she was looking for an out because of her insecurity about her looks.<br /><br />Eventually God was able to get through and work on the husband's heart. They didn't sin as fully as they were planning. Had the wife obeyed God's standards on sex from the start there wouldn't be any debate about "obeying a higher standard than her husband" in the end. <br />Res Ipsahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16433725505878267643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-15093071492210752382015-06-08T21:15:46.834-05:002015-06-08T21:15:46.834-05:00You have no Biblical support for what you have sai...You have no Biblical support for what you have said and are deceived yourself. So much so you can not see how important marriage is to God that He will hold us in His protection which is so much more powerful than your fear and exclamations. SarahsDaughterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11070845597474113030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-74976580579089708572015-06-08T20:10:16.859-05:002015-06-08T20:10:16.859-05:00NO!! This is absolutely wrong!! If a husband ask...NO!! This is absolutely wrong!! If a husband asks something that is clearly immoral and clearly a sin against nature we are not to obey!!! We are supposed to obey the state also, but we clearly know that if the state commands us to sin that we are to refuse. Please do not be Deceived!!! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3115260514178140021.post-2632378069987260852015-06-08T15:27:26.719-05:002015-06-08T15:27:26.719-05:00Powerful scenario.
I wonder how many men can'...Powerful scenario.<br /><br />I wonder how many men can't hear God over their wife's blabbering.Res Ipsahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16433725505878267643noreply@blogger.com