In the comments of
Donal Graeme's recent post commenter, Ton, peaked my interest with
this comment:
Yes men are pissed. They were lied to, the lie was easy to believe, gave them an easy out to manhood, one that made sense to them and now they are cranky about it. Most betas still think their beta male selves should be the rational choice. Which is false, but they believe it so they are still cranky.
In responding to Deti he had
this to say:
No brother I don't think beta men are necessarily the logical choice.
I asked if he would expand on this to which he obliged:
Why betas are not the logical choice; they are for the time periods of
peace and prosperity. Which is rare when you look at history. The Bible
also tells us things will get worse. Sooooo who should she tie her fate
to? The nice guy beta, or the thug who is willing to fight, break the
law, skirt social norms etc? Which is not to say the beta won't nut up,
but who has the demonstrated track record of taking risks, violence etc?
The lie is easy for them because being a nice guy/ beta is easy. No real
risk required. No missing lung, no chewed up face, busted hands, knees
shoulders etc that hurt every day. No getting up and doing PT before you
go do PT. Then doing PT during lunch and after work. Believe the lie
and you get to sit on your ass, play video games etc.
The easy way out is harmful because a man's first duty is violence. Watch
how women (in general) respond to a combat sport athlete or football
player vs a golfer or tennis player. Why? At the cellular she knows what
he is supposed to do.
It is harmful on the society level. Our people are
being replaced by aliens because men do not protect the tribe at
any level. It is also not Biblical. Almost all the big names in the Old
Testament were violent men. Our 1st commandment including taking
dominion over the earth. To rule. Rule ourselves like avoiding soft
living, rule over or women/ children/ family and house hold. Rule over
our clan and tribes. Rule over our nation. Rule over others and the
earth. To rule you need informal personal power or top down legal
authority. The last does not exist when things get bad. To have that
personal power, to earn that respect without relying on a formal chain
of command, requires the absolute certainty that a man can and will enforce his will physically.
Men, by in large, should not be cranky about what women find attractive.
Its logical and rational when looked at in total. They way I see it,
they are cranky because they are lazy as much as the lie. The other lie
that plays into the pissy attitude is the one about being happy,
deserving this that and the other thing. Life is pain, work, and
challenges. A man's joy should be in over coming tough obstacles and his
rare moments of peace and contentment.
Folks in the manosphere think I am a caricature of masculinity. I think they are all pussies.
I'm sure this will hit some people like a ton of bricks.
ReplyDeleteMen who talk about violence in this manner do not know what violence is. This is why I refer to so many in the Manosphere as wimps. Because they are. Including the so-called "Alphas," who should be called Paper Alphas.
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm going to maintain this discussion should be had among men (and why I have no commentary in the OP other than to say it is of interest to me) I did have to laugh a bit about your paper alpha comment considering your choice in picture. Ron White is one of my favorite comedians but also the quintessential bad boy who has successfully landed a very hot woman.
DeleteBob Wallace,
DeleteAre you sure you know who Ton is?
@Stg58
DeleteObviously, he doesn't. But it brings to mind an old quote... "There's nothing a soldier hates worse than a warrior."
"But it brings to mind an old quote... "There's nothing a soldier hates worse than a warrior.""
DeleteAs an Army veteran, I call BS on that "old quote".
Boys are taught, mostly by women BTW, that alpha behavior is wrong. The message of DO NOT, hit, fight back, call names, climb trees, play rough, use pretend guns etc, is drilled into little boys before they even discover that they are little boys. Little boys can't be raised as girls and be expected to naturally adapt into grown male behavior. What we are seeing in isn't a difference in Alpha vs Beta males, it s a difference between masculine and non-masculine male behavior.
ReplyDeleteThe frustrated American male (FAM) phenomena isn't a result of Alpha vs Beta sexual conquest dynamics. The FAM is a result of removing and restricting ANY form of male behavior from an early age. If a boy is taught that he should do XY&Z and that he will be successful if he does, and then he does those things and fails repeatedly to achieve his goals, he is going to get frustrated. The frustrated male is either going to act out, or check out. That is what we are seeing. The FAM isn't a beta, he is a emotional and psychological neuter, made that way by those who raised and taught him.
The FAM can't get a date, but he is a nice guy. He can't get a good job, but he went to a good school got good grades and is a hard worker. He can't get a good job and he can't get a girl he figures something is wrong, but he can't figure out what it is. His whole life he has been trained and he is sticking to his training, because its supposed to work. In the mean time there is porn, beer and chips, and these wonderful video games that allow him to pretend that he is a genuine badass. Have you noticed that across game platforms first person shooters tend to be the top selling and most frequently played video games? Why is that? Is that because video games are a socially (mother) approved way of playing quietly and still getting to play army?
To paraphrase Lewis, we castrate and bid the geldings to be fruitful.
Boys need to be boys. They need sword fights (or light sabers) and playing army and cops and robbers. They need to get punched. They need to punch back. They should crash their bike, skin their knee and play with fireworks. Yes they may put an eye out, and break a arm/leg. Better they break their leg than break the spirit. Better to lose an eye than to lose their identity as men.
I should have added
ReplyDeleteOn ordering a society, not every can or should be tier 1. Mechanics, electricians, plumbers, machinists, computer nerds are more important and more useful, but every man should know the basics. How to use a gun, a knife, land clean punches etc
"The Bible also tells us things will get worse. Sooooo who should she tie her fate to? The nice guy beta, or the thug who is willing to fight, break the law, skirt social norms etc? Which is not to say the beta won't nut up, but who has the demonstrated track record of taking risks, violence etc?"
ReplyDeleteThe thug is willing to do all those things, but not for her. He's unlikely to have any sense of responsibility for her. He will take risks to defend himself, to further his interests, maybe to help men he respects, but he won't risk anything for a female that he likely views as a replaceable jizz bucket. Why should he? Some woman will always be there for him to take, because there's always at least one who throws herself at him. The only group of men that can be counted on to take risks in order to protect women are the average betas. When crisis hits, they form tight-knit groups to cooperate and defend the people and resources they value. It's ludicrous to think that betas are wimps. Beta rage is a real phenomenon. Betas have all the ability to be tough, to stand for themselves, to assert their will. However, they are only capable of this when confronted by other men. They cannot do it against women.
"Why betas are not the logical choice; they are for the time periods of peace and prosperity."
Nonsense. In periods of peace and prosperity, the thing that pays is to be an alpha thug, to be a wolf among sheep, cuckolding clueless betas who foolishly take it for granted that other men are as civilized as he is, to live off the wealth created by betas in peaceful prosperity, to pump and dump women who don't expect commitment and resources in exchange for sex, precisely because peace and prosperity allows them to be financially independent.
When order breaks down, it pays to be a beta and cooperate with other betas to pool your resources and wit to fight off the alpha plunderers. For alphas, it's a war of everyone against everyone, a life of constant mortal danger.
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Delete"they are for the time periods of peace and prosperity. Which is rare when you look at history. The Bible also tells us things will get worse. Sooooo who should she tie her fate to? The nice guy beta, or the thug who is willing to fight, break the law, skirt social norms etc? Which is not to say the beta won't nut up, but who has the demonstrated track record of taking risks, violence etc?"
ReplyDeleteThis is bass ackwards. The beta is "popular" with women during harsh times. When the alpha leaving her knocked up has real starvation class consequences. The alpha-chasing is popular when you have general prosperity and a government beta funded social security net.
I have seen/ lived in 5 failed and or failing nation states on three different continents
ReplyDeleteNone played out like you two think regarding betas. Alphas/ thugs harems grow, betas become alpha/ thug like or become defacto peasants, betas women go into the soft rotation of the alphas buying her "man" a measure of security... women don't rush to betas because they offering nothing in return unless that beta butchs up. Betas don't rally together and take down alphas/ thugs. They join up, pay protection of some sorts, live like moles etc but don't become batmans and the like
Betas like their illusions including the notion they all have some hidden super hero in them. It's why they like comic books, movies etc. I have yet to see things play out like that in the real world.
I will agree that a full collapse that devolves into the "roving bands" dynamic will benefit the "violent thug alpha". A common theory is that a past "near extinction" event left with it some of the female attractions towards the dark triad traits. However, current civilisation and roving bands are not the only two states.
ReplyDeleteMost of historical time you have harsh consequences but not the full fail-state dynamic. You can see remnants of it in women of the less well off parts of the world (still) valuing stable provider guy (eg. parts of Asia). The slutty "roaring 20:s" partly reversed to the 50:s dads through a great depression and a world war in the US.
Roissy noted this dynamic in a number of his posts (for example http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/compassion-creates-more-cads/ and http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/when-women-stop-loving-beta-males/)
So what I am saying is :
- During "collapse" : Thugs rule
- Stabilizing , done by cooperating "betas"
- Stable but harsh situation Reliable provider Eddy steadyguy valued.
- Stable and economic largesse, CAD country/Alpha chase.
Only seen one mad max style collapse and that was in africa. Everywhere else kind of ran the gauntlet, but even where the state had decent level of control, the police where thug like in dealing with problems, supplementing their income etc
ReplyDeleteHey Sarah I will be reposting this and expanding on it some time shortly
ReplyDelete