He was very polite. I didn't think he would know my name so I reminded him who I was. Then I asked if he'd like to go out sometime. His response was a very kind, "Oh, thank you, but no, I'm interested in dating somebody else." And that was it. He didn't go to school and laugh with his buddies, he wasn't rude to me, nothing. No one ever knew that I had been shot down by him. And the girl he was interested in...there was no wonder why. I ended up working with her for a bit after high school. She is beautiful, feminine, and a sweetheart - a good girl, raised right.
Contrast that with RLB's story of being shot down. In seventh grade, he worked up the nerve to write a girl a note asking if she'd be his girlfriend. Not only did she laugh, she took this note and showed all the girls in the class, laughing and snickering at how funny it was he even dared to think she would go out with him. It mortified him and made him scared to ever ask another girl out. Girls are cruel, evil, bitches. (She's friends with him on facebook and when he tells me something funny or interesting she's posted, he still caveats it (almost 30 years later) with, "she's the one who embarrassed me with my note in seventh grade.")
Having a teenage son, I'm sensitive to this issue. He is a current student of game and is reflective of his natural Delta qualities. He has been friend zoned already by girls he finds attractive and has been prone to oneities. His first girlfriend was just mean to him. If they were texting each other and he wanted to stop to watch a movie with us she would flip out on him and text, "I HATE YOU." The first time he took it to heart until we explained to him what a shit test was. RLB then told him the response he needed to have: ignore her and when she talks to you next in school tell her you're not putting up with her crap, that she'll either stop this behavior or it's over with.
We work with our daughters about their natural tendency to be rude and mean to boys who they don't find attractive. The perfect example is naturally their brother. As is normal, they are in that stage where their older brother isn't cool yet, he's icky. If their friends make mention of how cute he is they say, "ewww." Which is amusing since our older daughter could pass as his twin sister. As pretty as she is, he is handsome. But of course, they don't see that. So we correct their behavior. We talk to them about how to treat people. That haughtiness, snobbishness, and natural bitchy tendencies are wrong. They need to pray and ask God to help them see people with a kind heart and treat them with empathy. No one deserves to have their spirit broken by their words and behaviors.
So how should a girl react when a boy they're not attracted to asks them out? Right now our daughters have a very truthful response: "No, my father won't be allowing me to date until I am sixteen." (This includes texting).
Sunshine Mary was very gracious in allowing me to derail the comment thread of her post yesterday. (It's an excellent post highlighting the poison that is being spewed by feminists encouraging girls to embrace their inner slut and of course a healthy dose of men bashing.) An anonymous commenter said this that sparked the tangent I went down:
As long as the rejection is as polite as the approach, no problem. Conversely, a rude, crude, harassing approach is rightly dismissed abruptly and without niceties. (That said, some women define “harassment” to include approaches that they would welcome from handsomer, higher status men; this is unfairTo which I asked for examples of non nuclear rejections. The responses have been fantastic so please go read through them. This is an important topic that you single ladies need to consider and you parents need to discuss with your daughters. Even married ladies. There's no reason to turn down a sincere approach by a man who doesn't realize you're married with indignant disdain. There's no need to flip your ring in his face and give him an eye roll, "uh no, you idiot, I'm married!" A pleasant "No thank you, I'm married and not interested" is fine. If you get the impression that doesn't matter to him and he'll continue to persist you can tell him that you take your vows seriously. Your behavior is very important. Your behavior needs to back up what you are saying (act as though you take your vows seriously). There's a way to carry yourself as a married woman even when your husband is not present. Perhaps I'll get into that in a future post.
But all too often, a polite approach by a man, is met with scorn, mockery, and even public humiliation from the woman — what the manosphere calls a “nuclear rejection”. Lots of good guys get it, ESPECIALLY in church from “Christian” women whom they politely, honorably asked out. WTF?
Here are some snippets from the men who were kind enough to answer honestly with advice and examples of the best way to turn down a guy:
-Give a clear "no" upfront and respond honestly
-Men who have little or no sexual experience, usually CAN. NOT. READ women’s subtle signals. You must, must, must be BLUNT about your non-interest… or, your interest. Polite, but blunt.
-Very firm and curt. Not rude, per se. But very, very emphatic. You can add “thank you” just to be polite
-Those who “can’t read signals” tend to read a lot of things into a nice but ambiguous rejection.
-If you reject him, but then hang out with him…. that’s a cruel mixed signal.
-You can’t avoid bruising his ego by pretending that’s not what you’re doing. What you can do is treat him as if he knows the score. Give him the opportunity to take a rejection from an equal, not a patronizing pat on the head. “I’m sorry, I’m not attracted to you. (magic words forthcoming) You know how it is.”
-True Omegas won’t get the hint without blunt force rejection. No cruelty need (you don’t need to insult their attributes), but a very, very firm “no” and, likely, a removal of that social circle from your life.
-Words must be reinforced by action.
-No thanks, I’m flattered but I’m interested in someone else.
-Let me get back to you. (later) I prayed about it, and I don’t think I should date you
-You’re a decent guy but honestly, our lives are on different ministry paths, I don’t think we should date.
-I don’t want to come across as mean, you’re a decent guy, but, I’m just not interested in dating you.
-I’m not even sure, before the Lord, that I’m supposed to marry, so I don’t really have any business dating til I sort that out.
-An “I’m not feeling it” sort of message
-“I appreciate the thoughts, but I am not attracted to you. You can’t win my attraction no matter how much you try. I hope we both find people in the future, God willing, but there is no relationship potential for us.” A little long, but it’d work.
Thank you so much to all of the commenters that contributed toward this list and the ongoing discussion that is happening at The Woman and the Dragon.
Common knowledge among men, who aren't Gammas, is that there is no such thing as a platonic relationship between men and women. Billy Crystal explains it beautifully in When Harry Met Sally:
So ladies, don't think you're doing men any favors by the "let's just be friends" (LJBF) rejection.