Monday, February 4, 2013

Marriage...Normandy Style

RLB post. (Women don't comment or read...well at least don't comment)

I have a brother that is mid thirties and unmarried. He seems to have no desire to marry. He had his heart broken by a woman when he was early twenties. I don't know all the details and only he and she would. I do know that he is like many other men younger than me. They WILL NOT get married.

They see no benefit to the idea. The utilitarian part of me agrees. Men, the deck is stacked against you in this culture. There is nothing logical to encourage you to participate in this charade of marriage as defined by our society. However, if you are a Christian, it is worth pursuing.

Don't grow weary. Pray and trust God will provide that which you can't imagine. I have an awesome marriage...today. Quit thinking life is supposed to be easy. I don't intend this to be a, "man-up" message. If you view it that way, by all means, call me out. If you are going to take back the mantle of leadership, it will start with the family. If it takes Roissy-type stuff to acquire the wife you are looking for, then do it. Embrace the ugly that is our situation and storm the beach.

42 comments:

  1. SD,

    Perhaps he appreciates the risk-reward equation is heavily stacked against him. Men don't get married so they can divorce, lose contact with their children and spend the rest of their life in poverty. They get married expecting to stay that way.

    Whilst Dalrock recommends a number of strategies to minimise the risk, I find that a difficult risk to recommend others take.

    Despite being very happily married, I readily acknowledge that had I been red pill when single, I might not have bothered.

    Most church people have little if any understanding of marriage 2.0 and the risks it entails. Most swallow the lies that unhappiness is an acceptable reason to divorce.

    In relation to rejection, it does leave deep marks. Deti tried to explain that here:

    http://thewomanandthedragon.wordpress.com/2013/02/01/manosphere-mythology-do-men-only-cheat-on-wives-who-are-fat-and-frigid/#comment-13695

    After the multiple rejections of a typical man's 20s, I never anticipated getting married either. A rising SMV and a change of city helped. Sadly, a contented marriage seems to be the exception. Too many church friends are now divorced and on their second wives.

    If your brother is happy and contented, let him be.

    http://thewomanandthedragon.wordpress.com/2013/02/01/manosphere-mythology-do-men-only-cheat-on-wives-who-are-fat-and-frigid/#comment-13456

    - an observer

    ReplyDelete
  2. Actually, SD didn't post this. I did, RLB.

    I don't find my brother to be happy. I don't suggest you can't be happy living unmarried. However, he is no Mother Theresa or Paul. The fact that you might not have bothered is what concerns me about the young men today. They need to know that it is worth it. Even if attempted in vain. I've read Deti's remarks and that is actually what made me want to express this. Running from the beach won't fix the situation. Many will die. It isn't lovely, but it is necessary.

    I had to be willing to have SD leave me in order to get something great. It worked out, but I was unsure that it would. I see younger men not trying. Perhaps, I'm wrong. I just don't see the determination of young men to tame the shrew.

    ReplyDelete
  3. RLB,

    Therein lies the crux, I think. The assessment that the shrew is not worth taming. My best mate just asked the same question, would I do it again if I was red pill then? And to be honest, I may not have.

    Many christian women from the churches of my youth are now middle aged divorcees. Most of those divorces were lifestyle choices by the woman. Each man must make his own assessment. I was nervous as all as on my wedding day, and the officiating pastor said that was good - because it was a life-altering choice with risk involved.

    Younger men have seen the behaviour of unfettered younger women. Every generation of feminism increases the intensity of misandry and further erodes the respect women once had for men. In such an environment, I am unsurprised youmger men assess the risks, and decide they aren't worth it.

    - an observer



    ReplyDelete
  4. "Embrace the ugly that is our situation and storm the beach."

    Or not.
    The men who stormed Normandy had something back home worth fighting for. Something worth the risk. That reason to take the risk no longer exists today.

    Hell, I would prohibit any sons from ever joining the military for that same reason. Especially now that they would have to look out for Cannon-Fodder Barbie in the fucking trenches, risking his life even further.

    ReplyDelete
  5. By the time I had enough artillery to storm Marriage Beach, there were no worthy troops to engage. Lots of empty beer bottles and discarded condoms, though.

    Lame puns like that probably don't help me, heh.

    ReplyDelete
  6. " Pray and trust God will provide that which you can't imagine."

    That's exactly what we're afraid of! LOL.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Perhaps taming the shrew isn't the answer. Maybe, it should be a determination of our younger men to find the 17-19 year old girl to marry before she gets all, "you go grrling". We, as Christians, can't allow our children not to marry. They have to bring about the next generation. Idiocracy is a true story. If you haven't seen it, google it and you'll get the gist.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Rlb, the indoctrination starts early. Careerism is taught as gospel from a young age.

    When Crittendens article on the cost of delaying marriage was posted to boundless, a storm resulted.
    http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001135.cfm

    Christians were apoplectic. Girls need careers!

    Idiocracy is only mildly satiric. Young men rightly look at the shrews and ask: why doi want to be with that?!

    - an observer

    ReplyDelete
  9. That is a great article. I wasn't aware of the storm. As a father of teen and pre-teens, I am feverishly trying to figure out the best way to raise and guide my girls and boy. We home-school our girls. Our son was home-schooled until this last year. Now he uses the college option of the high school. Our children aren't exposed to this gospel of careerism.

    I still think encouraging early marriage to our children is a great first step. My middle-aged man status drives me to think of the future generation. We need to recreate that thing which is worth fighting for and it has to start somewhere. I hear a lot of defeatism and very few constructive ideas about how to reestablish nuclear families at the individual level.

    I'm just not a throw my hands up in the air and do nothing kind of guy.

    ReplyDelete
  10. @RLB: "If you are going to take back the mantle of leadership, it will start with the family."

    This is true from my point of view, but I'm biased this way. For any like-minded man, I would also encourage "early marriage," before all of the damage occurs.

    BUT, for any young man who don't strongly want to marry, I would recommend building up his own life first and foremost. This would be the best avenue for establishing his leadership skills and determining his own path. THEN, if a virtuous young woman will take notice and want to join him, following his lead... Ahhh, now we're talking.

    -Alan

    ReplyDelete
  11. Red pill daughters can marry young to older men and have children early. There are plenty of honest beta men willing to marry across a large age gap:-)

    Red pill sons face an impossibly specialised labour market. I would be looking at a grey collar job. He may find the right spousal candidate harder to come by. Too many women consider younger men unsuitable. No status, no possessions, means low smv.

    Churches are prime offendersbat reinforcing this framework. Get established, they say. Find yourself, they say. Quoting from the humanist playbook.

    Bollocks.

    - an observer

    ReplyDelete
  12. @an observer:
    Hey, you're right to call foul. I was unclear or wrong. Reset...

    I don't want to set up any young man as a target. I want to encourage him to set his own priorities and pursue them without apologizing to anyone.

    I married young and it was the right thing for me, but this isn't always desireable or possible. Give him the facts and help him follow the best path. Point to Biblical guidance, provide some good examples, spare him the rose-colored glasses and moronic man-up speeches. Tell him the truth.
    -Alan

    ReplyDelete
  13. If I can find a Red-Pill or traditional woman of child bearing age (under 26), I will marry her. I have basically killed any hopes of this happening however.
    I suppose I'd rather face the reality of no hope than hope that will likely go completely unfulfilled.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hi RLB,

    Was the whole storm the beaches Normandy style a play on Dalrock's post?

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/a-tale-of-two-beaches/

    I got a little giggle out of it, intentional or not.




    ReplyDelete
  15. ar, that is what I'm counting on for our girls. I had a nice discussion with the children tonight about this. I figure our son's best opportunity lies with finding someone his younger sisters' age. His sisters friends are the best possibility for him.

    AussieTom, I'm sure that played into my storming reference. I didn't think about it specifically, but it makes sense that Dalrock's post was floating around somewhere in my brain.

    I know the single men aged 25-40 are in need of guidance as well. I think Roissy and Dalrock give some excellent advice for them. I have a preference of thinking a bit more long term for our children and society. However, Roissy had an excellent post about long term issues today.


    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/02/04/choice-quotes-from-michel-houellebecq/

    ReplyDelete
  16. Hey Alan, no malice intended. I was thinking primarily of economic realities for young men. It can take years to make career progress and many young women are unwilling to support and live with a husband through these hungry years. Too many women prefer to have fun, travel, accrue credit card debt etc.

    I would have preferred to marry younger, but it didnt happen.

    When i got engaged, i was working a part time, casual job. My fiancee worked full time, and the pre premarital counselling focussed heavily on this supposed disparity; shades of 1 tim 5:8 every time. I wanted a ft job, which took months to find.

    - an observer

    ReplyDelete
  17. I remember changing the brake pads on my $500 1984 Toyota pick-up when living at my parent's house. I was married about 6 months and had a pt job making very little. SD was waitressing making twice what I was. My father tried to console me and say it was okay to make less than your wife. It didn't take. I got pissed.

    There were some issues between SD and me relating to my presence around females. I was a great waiter. I made awesome money. She didn't want me around young women anymore and that precipitated my exit from the service industry. It took me a while to start making enough money to support a family again.

    The truth is I should have put my foot down then and refused to exit a job that I was good at and made a decent living. I didn't. Much to my chagrin and her hamster. I kept pursuing a good job and eventually started making upper middle-class income. I had a brush with wealthy people. They disgusted me. Maybe it was the wrong group of wealthy people, I don't know. I do know that being poor and prioritizing the things that mattered has led to an awesome life.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Coming from a working poor family, i was always careful with money. Not always wise, but at least careful, an outlook my wife shares.

    It is possible to live modestly, but a society fuelled by credit associates certain socioeconomic traits with behaviours. Hence, the poor can have mobile phones, cable tv and a car on hire purchase. Women are decived by appearance, and are weak in determining cause and effect, and i knew several who had no qualms about wracking up credit card debt, store cards and student loan debt, to have the right 'look'.

    Young women need to be told that economic choices have dire consequences on future choices. Young men are better at seeing this, but can be seduced into debt servitude by different things.

    A young couple can survive on minimal income. Many do not believe this. The pressure comes from many illadvised 'friends' to buy a house, which means multiple cars are needed, and the debt cycle deepens.

    It doesnt have to be that way. Marry young, live cheaply, have babies. School them at home.

    - an observer

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well said. Amen. Let it be so. That's it...that's what I've got to your statement. I would do the monk singing thing if possible with the crossing of the chest.

      Delete
    2. A wise man. Well done, sir. Pass on what you've learned.
      -Alan

      Delete
  19. @an observer: We're good. I took the Mulligan and made a better shot.

    Money is a sticky mess. After "providing for one's own house," where do we stop?. Once the basic needs are met, how much more is really necessary? Priorities, always priorities. When it comes down to a choice between more cash or time at home with her and the kids... It's no contest.

    When we got married, she made a little more than I did, because I had to start at the bottom of my field. Rock bottom. We knew that it wouldn't last, but there were some stupid comments -- especially from family. Go figure. Eventually, she was home with the kids and happier than ever. I got established and it didn't matter anymore.

    Everyone had to settle down and wait for me to work it out. Sounds like RLB got the flip side of the problem, passing up better money to "keep the peace." Live and learn. Every man has to sort it out for himself -- and our wives may not help. They hear too many whispers from every possible direction. Guess what, it's not a blasted democracy. A man figures out how to provide for his own family -- and everyone else gets to take a seat and shut up.

    @RLB: If you and SD have what you need, you'll always be successful. (As if you didn't know that already.)

    I'll trade you car repair stories. I still remember one like it was yesterday. I had to repack a couple of wheel bearings, in the dark, next to her college dorm room. As soon as I got it all back together, we drove several hundred miles to Niagara Falls just for fun. Stupid kids. I probably had $4 in my pocket and half a tank of gas in a worn out Mazda GLC, but so what? We had a blast. As soon as possible, I married the very same girl, and that was that.

    Priorities.

    -Alan

    ReplyDelete
  20. And stay married. None of the 'i'm not happy' bleating leading to a his-fault divorce.

    - an observer

    ReplyDelete
  21. Sure marriage would be a good option...if I wasn't up against a government and judicial system that can cut me off at the knees, a media and schooling system that brainwashes and corrupts the woman's mind, and most religions that blame all societal ills on the fact that I am responsible for the women's sins.

    I will live life just fine single...it's 9/10 because I have a good relationship with God and others. If a woman I find worth comes along that makes it 10/10, I'll consider marriage. There is nothing that says just because you get married you become happy. Besides single life isn't a plethora of fun and easy living as married people seem to think it is...because there is also risk going at it alone.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Taterearl,

    Rlb was looking for suggestions for his kids. He has the chance to influence them. We're not tallking about manning up for the typical slutty self-entitled former carousel riders that want a beta providers they can divorce rape.

    Another writer sums it up like this:
    http://thewomanandthedragon.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/on-slutty-behavior-and-moral-agency/#comment-14560

    - an observer

    ReplyDelete
  23. Another take here on shaping childrens attitudes positively:

    http://thewomanandthedragon.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/on-slutty-behavior-and-moral-agency/#comment-14588

    - an observer

    ReplyDelete
  24. Yes, that is what I'm getting at. Changing the pattern of thinking within the Christian community is vital to fix the hooking up culture. My own sister (liberal Christian) is having issues with her son thinking about marriage so young. He's almost 21. Actually, it's her husband having the bigger issue. The girlfriend is 22. I said to my sister that they better get married soon so she can start popping out babies. She laughed and I think it came across well. Those are the type of conversations we need to be having with our Christian friends and family. Get married young and damn the consequences of that decision.

    ReplyDelete
  25. I did think that one advantage of marrying young and being penniless is that there are also fewer cash and prizes to incentivise a divorce.

    - an observer

    ReplyDelete
  26. As a father I have an obligation to my son. The Bible tells us a good father does not give his children serpents as gifts

    Knowing/ experiencing what I have with women and the family court, how can I encourage him to marry/ gift him with a serpent?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Teach him how to recognize the serpent. Not all women are destined to divorce and rape their husbands. There are signs. Family upbringing and reactions to questioning from family members are great ways to decipher serpent from help-meet.

      Delete
  27. During my last trip down range, a little over half the married men in my platoon caught their wives going feral. Caught mind you. Seems unreasonable to say they all failed to screen their wives properly

    In my case, my ex wife was a virgin when we married, a star athlete, devoted Catholic, from a long line of Catholics and no history of divorce, family abuse, drug abuse, or massive weight gain in her family. Perhaps I did not screen properly, or game her hard enough, perhaps not

    The divorce rate for Christians is only marginally better then the rate for secular folks, and the marriages that do last do not imply success or any kind of personal contentment.


    I do not want to belabor the point, or derail your blog, but I think you are very naive on this topic.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've been downrange. I'm not naive. Maybe you didn't screen properly. Maybe you didn't leave her with people you could trust. Your tragedy doesn't mean it can't be avoided.

      If you've read much here, you will know we don't like the majority of Churchian teaching. You are right about the Christian divorce rate. That doesn't change the need to prepare the following generations. You can't have following generations without figuring out the best way to advise your offspring about how to get married.

      I just don't buy your don't bother marrying as the best solution for Christian children. I'm sure arranged marriages will make a comeback. We as Christians should get used to that and promote it.

      Delete
    2. It's not about my experience per say, it's about how common my experience is and the divorce courts, the individual woman, societal influence etc. Being human I am sure I missed something in the screening, and so did my family who also approved of her. Being human implies I did not pass all her shit test as well. Will your son do those things perfectly? He must or run the very real risk of legal, lifetime enslavement.

      Marriage is...cannons on the left ( society) cannons on the right (the courts) and into the valley of death (the woman/ marriage) ride the 600.

      Your naivety stems from having a successfully marriage.

      Delete
    3. I think a better solution is for the men of this nation to abandon the military. The nation doesn't remotely care about them or their sacrifices nor do the women they fight for.

      The stories I've heard about wives of deployed soldiers are truly sickening and made me realize that I wanted no part of being married or even attached while I was in the military. I didn't pursue relationships in the latter half of college because I knew the path before me.

      Delete
    4. I'm not sure I agree. I think it is a good idea for Christian men to be part of the military. It isn't like there is a better country out there. If you aren't willing to defend your country, it says what you think about it. The alternatives to this present form of our country aren't what I would call pleasant.

      Delete
    5. RLB,
      I will gladly defend the Constitution, however this President and the military no longer do that. And given the direction this country is headed on every single front, there isn't much I'd be willing to kill or die for. I joined the Army to go to OCS back in 2007 (I ended up not being able to serve due to medical issues that came up Basic) and that was a country I was willing to defend. We are a very different nation now.

      Delete
  28. Ps,arranged marriages, not the answer since they do nothing to mitigate the inherent risks of the current legal situation

    Marriage is a three points of failure system

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So far you have said:

      1. Marriage is bad because it hurts men financially.

      2. No one can understand you because you are different.

      I don't recall any promise being made in the Bible about shit being easy. I don't recall give up if the odds/statistics are against you. I don't recall give up if it doesn't make financial sense. What do you worship? Money? An easy life? Grow up.

      Yes, absolutely know the tactical situation. Educate those that follow about the mines and snipers. We have way too many men quitting. I'm really not interested in the type of man that has such an attitude. Feel free to be an Anonymouse somewhere else. This isn't a bitch fest site.

      You are not without fault. If you want to be part of a solution, by all means stick around. If not, piss off.

      Delete
  29. RLB: consider for a second the UK and US landings.

    The US were caught by minefields and had difficulty getting off the beach. They had no specailist gear. So they did a Marine style attack (Straight up the middle).

    The Brits and Canadians bought in ridiculous looking tanks that could clear obstacles and minefields. They talk less about the beaches because they have less in the war graves.

    As someone who has a churchian ex wife, it is not all about screening. It is about sheer bloody minded determination that is is going to work by both husband and wife. And if the wife stops fighting and goes feral, there is no comeback: the specialist gear that we had to deal with the minefield of the family court -- such as church or canon law, contracts and the like -- has been taken away because the Churchians feel it is unfair.

    When the aim in high stakes situations is to make things as unfair as possible. In your favour/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I fully understand the faulty analogy issue with my title. My point is about the mentality of winning at all cost. Our mission as Christian men is to succeed, not to give excuses. I completely disagree with your assertion, "And if the wife stops fighting and goes feral, there is no comeback." I have anecdotally seen it and was ready to accept a longer term issue with SD regarding it. There are plenty of scriptural references to back that up as well.

      I propose adaptive techniques such as ignoring the legal/state-issued marriage document and teaching young children to accept parental arranged marriages. These are things that force a rejection of current political/legal climate. Imagine for a minute the effect of one half of the couple to say, "I will not sign a government document!" The discussion obviously leads to things that force the other half to realize the seriousness of marriage before God and not before the state.

      Delete
    2. The current system is not going to last. We need to disengage from the state, for it will fall. I've said more @ my place: I'm aware there are limits on what can and should be said on a military related blog.

      Delete
  30. "However, if you are a Christian, [marriage] is worth pursuing.

    Don't grow weary. Pray and trust God will provide that which you can't imagine. I have an awesome marriage...today. Quit thinking life is supposed to be easy. I don't intend this to be a, "man-up" message. If you view it that way, by all means, call me out. If you are going to take back the mantle of leadership, it will start with the family."

    RLB, this is good advice for Christian men, if only because we as Christians hold that sex isn't permissible outside marriage.

    I married 16 years ago to a reformed slut. Had I to do it over again, and had I known then what I know now, I most likely wouldn't have married at all, much less married mrs. deti. It is risky -- very, very risky.

    Having said that, men should go in with their eyes fully open. I would suggest that no man marry without some of the rudiments of Game. He needs the following;

    1. Stand firm on core principles, no matter what. Even if she leaves.

    2. I realize this might be controversial, but I'm going to say it: divorce must not be taken off the table. Divorce should be preserved as a last resort option in the event of adultery, abuse, addiction or abandonment. Sorry to say it, men, but if she cheats on you or even takes a firm step in that direction, your marriage is over. She doesn't respect you, and she'll treat you with seething contempt if you stay with her after she cheats.

    3. Never fear her feelings. Let her feel them.

    4. Never fear to lose her. If she leaves, she leaves. When it all comes down to it, you cannot control her. She has to walk her walk. She, not you, will stand before God and answer for how she treated you. Do not fall into the mindset of "I can't live without you" or some other such nonsense. Yes, you can live without her if you have to. You did it before and you can do it again.

    5. Do not be nice. Be good and righteous.

    6. Absolutely refuse to put up with bullshit.

    deti

    ReplyDelete