Interesting video...I looked up nice and kind in the Bible. No references to those 2 words but there are many references to gentleness and being gentle. I look at Jesus. He absolutely stood up to evil, mostly the Pharisees, but was gentle with people. So we must learn to speak the Truth in love {and gentleness}. This asks for seeking wisdom from God because I am certainly not afraid to speak and write about Truth and against evil but I always want to do it in a gentle way. {I never did care too much for the word nice..Too wishy washy.}
I look at Jesus. He absolutely stood up to evil, mostly the Pharisees, but was gentle with people. So we must learn to speak the Truth in love {and gentleness}.
That must be from the book 1 Hamsters. Let's see what Jesus really said and did.
So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. John 2:15
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. Matthew 23:25-28
It is not that Jesus was gentle; it is that he was gentle towards those who approached Him in humility, trembling FOR THEIR SINS (Luke 18:13). The Gospels show women doing this (the woman whose son was afflicted with a demon, the woman with five husbands, the prostitute who broke the jar of ointment and washed his feet with her tears): but also men: The Centurion ("Not even in Israel have I found such faith"), Zacchaeus the crooked chiseling tax collector, Dysmas during his execution on the very next cross over from Jesus.
But note: his "nice" language was not for the haughty, or for the sake of placating social conventions. He reserved it for the poor in spirit.
Whatever works for you, Lori. Gentleness did not bring me into obedience to God. Quite the contrary. My personality does not tolerate gentleness well. I will continue to write in the manner that I needed in order to be reached. There are thousands of gentle blogs that those who need gentleness can read.
The truth I speak is in love. The truth my husband spoke to me was in love (AGAPE). It was NOT gentle.
Whatever works for you, Lori. Gentleness did not bring me into obedience to God.
Well, that's Scriptural on your part, SarahsDaughter:
In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior. 1 Peter 3:1-2
(Other translations say pure, reverent, etc.)
See that? Submissive is a way to win men over, not women.
I was wrong in my earlier comment as I thought about it. Love, as defined in I Cornithians, is patient and kind. The Bible does use the word kind but not nice which is the word the woman in the video used. Just wanted to amend my earlier comment!
Right and the manner in which we are kind varies. It was kind of my husband to make it clear to me the I need to "get my own thing" (my own relationship with God) and my behavior would no longer be tolerated. It was kind of him to put me in my place, left alone to cry out to God. It was kind of him and very patient of him to stand firm in emotional detachment so that I might see the Truth from God.
I use this as a model in being kind to others. I think to myself, "is this message going to affect those who are reading who may be like me?" Sometimes the greatest gift you can give a Christian who is struggling with obedience is getting them to be offended. RLB offended me greatly. It aroused rage in me. I was indignant and had to go to God to get it settled. In that blind rage God was able to change my heart.
I can think of nothing more rude than to know the Truth and not share it. It would have been rude for RLB to allow me to continue on in rebellion to God.
Sarah, I did not intend to offend or criticize you with my comments. I was only thinking out loud and responding to the video. I like your no frills message. I have the same type of personality, strong and stubborn, thus need in-your-face preachers and teachers. Those who speak truth boldly are my favorite kind!
I hear what you and the video are saying... that our society is using the concept of being nice (playing well with others) to water down all truth and reason to the point that truth has lost its saltiness and if no longer truth. It is nice to say that "love wins all" but the reality is that love wins only those who take Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.
It is nice to love our gay friends, but to let them wallow in their sin fat and happy with their state of being without tell them clearly that they are sinning against God and nature with eternal consequences, is not loving, or freeing.
America is dumbed down to a point of having reason and truth take the back seat to love and nicities and we as believers must stand up for Biblical truth in an uncompromising way, even if many are offended by our message. Christ did not come to tickle the ears of his listeners but to preach the truth to a lost world. He asks us to do the same... but we must find a way to insure that it is His message that offends, not our manners and angry spirit.
We speak the truth in love = love is patience, kind... 1 Cor. 13. To shine Christ's love to others while holding fast and seaking the truth... that is our challange ... not to be held to a standard of being nice, because nice gets no one into the family of God and heaven.
"but we must find a way to insure that it is His message that offends, not our manners and angry spirit."
This is what is amusing to me. That anyone can judge an angry spirit by reading something from a stranger. That is called projection. It might take someone to be really angry to say the things I say. So they project that I am being rude or angry in spirit. RLB tells me that my words are like a mirror put in front of people revealing all they can't stand about themselves.
When I read the Bible, I find those words like a mirror, reflecting what I don't like about myself...every time I read it. I perceive the Bible's message as VERY in your face, and assertive. It is not often I read pleasantries from the Bible. I purposefully seek it to get my daily bash on the head. Same reason I read a lot of what I read.
You would be interested to know, you would never guess I was SD if you met me as a stranger on the street. I promise. You wouldn't even know by my mannerisms as I walk away from the keyboard what I just wrote.
It took me many years to even acknowledge that the way I say things can be offensive, and that by changing just a few words I can come across as much more loving and caring, even Christ-like, without changing the central truth of the Message.
Every believer who post, especially those of us with a prophetic "truth telling" gift should go back and reread what we have written before we hit the publish button asking ourselves:
"Is this not only what Jesus would have me say, but how he would have me say it?"
A couple of you's may get turned into "we's", a few sentences may be added to show the right balance of grace and compassion. Most of all, our "darn right" attitude might be excised from the message, allowing the truth to speak for itself, instead of my strong personality being the focal point of the message.
I still have not learned this completely, and I prefer to err on the side of the truth, rather than water things down, BUT I know how offensive a strong personality can be, all in the name of sharing God's truth... without His grace and love. To do so is the clanging symbol Paul was talking about.
Keep preaching the truth! I love it... but know that such truth can be taught as a 2x4, or as a gentle shepherd’s rod that directs the sheep, not beats them. Your video woman speaks great truths, but if her anger was instead expressed more as sadness or distress, she may find more willing listeners. It is easy to turn her off because of her string personality and miss her excellent message of truth.
You may like getting spanked by the truth, but not everyone responds best to a brick through their beliefs window. But I agree there is a time to speak strongly to a world that is so used to having their ears tickled.
I will add, I have gone back to read some of your posts and you are getting the typical comments saying you are judgmental and critical, when all you present is the truth. You cannot do anything about someone who stumbles over "the rock of offense" of God's Word. Keep preaching true Biblical submission and practicing it, as God's ways are always right.
"You may like getting spanked by the truth, but not everyone responds best to a brick through their beliefs window."
This blog is not for those who don't prefer to be spanked by the truth. This blog is not for everyone. I've been clear about that from the get go. I could care less about butts in the seat or butt hurt feelings. I need for women like Barnhardt to exist. If other women want to speak her message of truth in a way that will affect those who are turned off, let them. There are thousands of boring Christian blogs that will never have me a reader. And that's okay.
I have a very open invitation to all who read here voluntarily to stop reading here. :)
"I have a very open invitation to all who read here voluntarily to stop reading here. :)"
Instead you might say,
I have an invitation to all who read here to keep reading even when it hurts, as God's Word has the power to change you and to allow you to enter into all of His wonderful promises, and a godly marriage.
Anon, if I read that, I'd have a gag reflex. But you are more than welcome to start your own blog with all of the fluffy Christiany talk you feel is important. I don't talk that way. No one talks that way where I'm from and we think the people who do talk that way are weird. IT TURNS THEM OFF
LOL :) I get it ... In your face is what you perceive your listeners want from you, and if Christ has called you to this approach, more power to you :).
Again, love your message... as it conforms to God's plain teaching... but I wonder about the sometimes too sharp an edge of a strong personality that you believe is necessary to go with it. But by all means, I like you :) and what you are trying to do and say.
"but I wonder about the sometimes too sharp an edge of a strong personality that you believe is necessary to go with it."
The speakers/writers who have been most influential in my life are extremely terse, sharp edged, very strong, Choleric personalities. I am so thankful for them. I know from talking with several people like myself that they would never have been reached any other way.
I hear the same when I read Jesus' words. His is a very powerful voice that doesn't hold back. It is literally "sit down, shut up, and listen to what I have to say!"
So, will a lot of people be turned off? Sure, but like I said, there are plenty of other places they can go.
I will not hold back in order that the hard heads like me can find a place that sounds the way they do. The emails I receive confirm this.
Every believer who post, especially those of us with a prophetic "truth telling" gift should go back and reread what we have written before we hit the publish button asking ourselves:
"Is this not only what Jesus would have me say, but how he would have me say it?"
I disagree. I have found that what flows from my fingers early in the morning after reading God's word needs to be left alone. I was the same way when I wrote poetry. Whenever I'd try too hard, it just would not flow.
Think of it this way. Wouldn't it just be grand if the deceiver could have me change and second guess enough of those words so the reader who would otherwise receive what I have to say is distracted by the changes I've made and turned off by the fluff?
On a battlefield, the stereotypical asshole drill-sergeant ("I bet you just can't wait for me to die so you can piss on my grave." "No sir: once I leave the Army, I'll never stand in line again.") who told you to stop whining and do more than you thought you could is a wayy better friend than the teacher who gave you an A for effort.
This world is a battlefield.
Of course, the ones who leave an impression (like Jesus) are the ones who can backhand you when you need it, and you still know that they will be there for you when you need it. Given that the discussion here is not composed merely of the wails of the wounded, I would argue that SD and RLB are closer to this than to that.
Still, when the Body of Christ is full of shit, perhaps it needs an asshole.
There are women out there who are at the end of their rope. The marriage is failing, the kids are rebelling, they hate their job, and they have no idea how they got into this mess or how to get out of it. They need Jesus but have completely shutdown on Christianity.
They are like the woman at the well.
The typical Christian-woman blog is about recipes, homeschooled kids, and pretty pictures of aprons. For the woman at the well it is like looking at pictures of the moon. Alien and unreachable.
You, SD, are speaking a language she can understand. Thank you. Keep it up.
It is exactly that woman who I'm talking to. I know many of them personally. Feminism and this notion of equality has so infiltrated their thinking they have denied all that they were created for. It is fed to them from their mothers, their fathers, their churches, schools, etc. How could Dad be wrong? He told me to go to college and have a career. Why is everything falling apart? Why am I so stressed out. Why am I so reliant on medication just to feel...right?
Now, I have tons of fantastic recipes, excellent homeschool advice, and one apron that a friend bought me that says "I wine constantly." - It's perfect irony for me. However, none of this matters in the least when a woman's heart is fretful. She's tuned her husband out and in complete rebellion. This is the woman who needs to be told to shut her trap, recognize what she's doing is the source of her problems, and that she has the ability to make it all change if she'd get over her own damn self. She's wrong and needs a good verbal smack down - completely contrary to the pathetic advice her other feminist friends have been giving her: "try this anti-anxiety medication, you'll love it." "tell your husband you need help around the home." "get your unruly son on to some medications." "let's go out for a much needed girl's night out." "your new pixie cut is just adorable on you." "your husband needs to love you for who you are, don't stress about your extra weight." etc. etc. I've learned you need to tick them off enough in order to get them to start thinking. Everyone around them is "nice." Nice lying messengers of the enemy.
And, if you think they roll their eyes and look with derision at their husbands, you should see their response to Betty homemaker and her sweet Christian countenance and churchy words like "Bless your heart" and "I'll hold you up in prayer."
Interesting video...I looked up nice and kind in the Bible. No references to those 2 words but there are many references to gentleness and being gentle. I look at Jesus. He absolutely stood up to evil, mostly the Pharisees, but was gentle with people. So we must learn to speak the Truth in love {and gentleness}. This asks for seeking wisdom from God because I am certainly not afraid to speak and write about Truth and against evil but I always want to do it in a gentle way. {I never did care too much for the word nice..Too wishy washy.}
ReplyDelete@Lori Alexander on February 2, 2013 at 2:57 PM --
DeleteI look at Jesus. He absolutely stood up to evil, mostly the Pharisees, but was gentle with people. So we must learn to speak the Truth in love {and gentleness}.
That must be from the book 1 Hamsters. Let's see what Jesus really said and did.
So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. John 2:15
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. Matthew 23:25-28
It is not that Jesus was gentle; it is that he was gentle towards those who approached Him in humility, trembling FOR THEIR SINS (Luke 18:13). The Gospels show women doing this (the woman whose son was afflicted with a demon, the woman with five husbands, the prostitute who broke the jar of ointment and washed his feet with her tears): but also men: The Centurion ("Not even in Israel have I found such faith"), Zacchaeus the crooked chiseling tax collector, Dysmas during his execution on the very next cross over from Jesus.
But note: his "nice" language was not for the haughty, or for the sake of placating social conventions. He reserved it for the poor in spirit.
Whatever works for you, Lori. Gentleness did not bring me into obedience to God. Quite the contrary. My personality does not tolerate gentleness well. I will continue to write in the manner that I needed in order to be reached. There are thousands of gentle blogs that those who need gentleness can read.
ReplyDeleteThe truth I speak is in love. The truth my husband spoke to me was in love (AGAPE). It was NOT gentle.
@SarahsDaughter on February 2, 2013 at 3:23 PM --
DeleteWhatever works for you, Lori. Gentleness did not bring me into obedience to God.
Well, that's Scriptural on your part, SarahsDaughter:
In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior. 1 Peter 3:1-2
(Other translations say pure, reverent, etc.)
See that? Submissive is a way to win men over, not women.
I was wrong in my earlier comment as I thought about it. Love, as defined in I Cornithians, is patient and kind. The Bible does use the word kind but not nice which is the word the woman in the video used. Just wanted to amend my earlier comment!
ReplyDeleteRight and the manner in which we are kind varies. It was kind of my husband to make it clear to me the I need to "get my own thing" (my own relationship with God) and my behavior would no longer be tolerated. It was kind of him to put me in my place, left alone to cry out to God. It was kind of him and very patient of him to stand firm in emotional detachment so that I might see the Truth from God.
ReplyDeleteI use this as a model in being kind to others. I think to myself, "is this message going to affect those who are reading who may be like me?" Sometimes the greatest gift you can give a Christian who is struggling with obedience is getting them to be offended. RLB offended me greatly. It aroused rage in me. I was indignant and had to go to God to get it settled. In that blind rage God was able to change my heart.
I can think of nothing more rude than to know the Truth and not share it. It would have been rude for RLB to allow me to continue on in rebellion to God.
Sarah, I did not intend to offend or criticize you with my comments. I was only thinking out loud and responding to the video. I like your no frills message. I have the same type of personality, strong and stubborn, thus need in-your-face preachers and teachers. Those who speak truth boldly are my favorite kind!
DeleteWhat I thought I was reading was, "uh, uh, uh, the Bible says we must be ______" So I appreciate you clarifying that for me.
DeleteI hear what you and the video are saying... that our society is using the concept of being nice (playing well with others) to water down all truth and reason to the point that truth has lost its saltiness and if no longer truth. It is nice to say that "love wins all" but the reality is that love wins only those who take Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.
ReplyDeleteIt is nice to love our gay friends, but to let them wallow in their sin fat and happy with their state of being without tell them clearly that they are sinning against God and nature with eternal consequences, is not loving, or freeing.
America is dumbed down to a point of having reason and truth take the back seat to love and nicities and we as believers must stand up for Biblical truth in an uncompromising way, even if many are offended by our message. Christ did not come to tickle the ears of his listeners but to preach the truth to a lost world. He asks us to do the same... but we must find a way to insure that it is His message that offends, not our manners and angry spirit.
We speak the truth in love = love is patience, kind... 1 Cor. 13. To shine Christ's love to others while holding fast and seaking the truth... that is our challange ... not to be held to a standard of being nice, because nice gets no one into the family of God and heaven.
"but we must find a way to insure that it is His message that offends, not our manners and angry spirit."
ReplyDeleteThis is what is amusing to me. That anyone can judge an angry spirit by reading something from a stranger. That is called projection. It might take someone to be really angry to say the things I say. So they project that I am being rude or angry in spirit. RLB tells me that my words are like a mirror put in front of people revealing all they can't stand about themselves.
When I read the Bible, I find those words like a mirror, reflecting what I don't like about myself...every time I read it. I perceive the Bible's message as VERY in your face, and assertive. It is not often I read pleasantries from the Bible. I purposefully seek it to get my daily bash on the head. Same reason I read a lot of what I read.
You would be interested to know, you would never guess I was SD if you met me as a stranger on the street. I promise. You wouldn't even know by my mannerisms as I walk away from the keyboard what I just wrote.
It took me many years to even acknowledge that the way I say things can be offensive, and that by changing just a few words I can come across as much more loving and caring, even Christ-like, without changing the central truth of the Message.
DeleteEvery believer who post, especially those of us with a prophetic "truth telling" gift should go back and reread what we have written before we hit the publish button asking ourselves:
"Is this not only what Jesus would have me say, but how he would have me say it?"
A couple of you's may get turned into "we's", a few sentences may be added to show the right balance of grace and compassion. Most of all, our "darn right" attitude might be excised from the message, allowing the truth to speak for itself, instead of my strong personality being the focal point of the message.
I still have not learned this completely, and I prefer to err on the side of the truth, rather than water things down, BUT I know how offensive a strong personality can be, all in the name of sharing God's truth... without His grace and love. To do so is the clanging symbol Paul was talking about.
Keep preaching the truth! I love it... but know that such truth can be taught as a 2x4, or as a gentle shepherd’s rod that directs the sheep, not beats them. Your video woman speaks great truths, but if her anger was instead expressed more as sadness or distress, she may find more willing listeners. It is easy to turn her off because of her string personality and miss her excellent message of truth.
You may like getting spanked by the truth, but not everyone responds best to a brick through their beliefs window. But I agree there is a time to speak strongly to a world that is so used to having their ears tickled.
I will add, I have gone back to read some of your posts and you are getting the typical comments saying you are judgmental and critical, when all you present is the truth. You cannot do anything about someone who stumbles over "the rock of offense" of God's Word. Keep preaching true Biblical submission and practicing it, as God's ways are always right.
Delete"You may like getting spanked by the truth, but not everyone responds best to a brick through their beliefs window."
ReplyDeleteThis blog is not for those who don't prefer to be spanked by the truth. This blog is not for everyone. I've been clear about that from the get go. I could care less about butts in the seat or butt hurt feelings. I need for women like Barnhardt to exist. If other women want to speak her message of truth in a way that will affect those who are turned off, let them. There are thousands of boring Christian blogs that will never have me a reader. And that's okay.
I have a very open invitation to all who read here voluntarily to stop reading here. :)
And therein you prove my point...
Delete"I have a very open invitation to all who read here voluntarily to stop reading here. :)"
Instead you might say,
I have an invitation to all who read here to keep reading even when it hurts, as God's Word has the power to change you and to allow you to enter into all of His wonderful promises, and a godly marriage.
Anon, if I read that, I'd have a gag reflex. But you are more than welcome to start your own blog with all of the fluffy Christiany talk you feel is important. I don't talk that way. No one talks that way where I'm from and we think the people who do talk that way are weird. IT TURNS THEM OFF
ReplyDeleteLOL :) I get it ... In your face is what you perceive your listeners want from you, and if Christ has called you to this approach, more power to you :).
ReplyDeleteAgain, love your message... as it conforms to God's plain teaching... but I wonder about the sometimes too sharp an edge of a strong personality that you believe is necessary to go with it. But by all means, I like you :) and what you are trying to do and say.
Oh no... am I just being nice again :)?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"but I wonder about the sometimes too sharp an edge of a strong personality that you believe is necessary to go with it."
ReplyDeleteThe speakers/writers who have been most influential in my life are extremely terse, sharp edged, very strong, Choleric personalities. I am so thankful for them. I know from talking with several people like myself that they would never have been reached any other way.
I hear the same when I read Jesus' words. His is a very powerful voice that doesn't hold back. It is literally "sit down, shut up, and listen to what I have to say!"
So, will a lot of people be turned off? Sure, but like I said, there are plenty of other places they can go.
I will not hold back in order that the hard heads like me can find a place that sounds the way they do. The emails I receive confirm this.
Every believer who post, especially those of us with a prophetic "truth telling" gift should go back and reread what we have written before we hit the publish button asking ourselves:
ReplyDelete"Is this not only what Jesus would have me say, but how he would have me say it?"
I disagree. I have found that what flows from my fingers early in the morning after reading God's word needs to be left alone. I was the same way when I wrote poetry. Whenever I'd try too hard, it just would not flow.
Think of it this way. Wouldn't it just be grand if the deceiver could have me change and second guess enough of those words so the reader who would otherwise receive what I have to say is distracted by the changes I've made and turned off by the fluff?
On a battlefield, the stereotypical asshole drill-sergeant ("I bet you just can't wait for me to die so you can piss on my grave." "No sir: once I leave the Army, I'll never stand in line again.") who told you to stop whining and do more than you thought you could is a wayy better friend than the teacher who gave you an A for effort.
ReplyDeleteThis world is a battlefield.
Of course, the ones who leave an impression (like Jesus) are the ones who can backhand you when you need it, and you still know that they will be there for you when you need it. Given that the discussion here is not composed merely of the wails of the wounded, I would argue that SD and RLB are closer to this than to that.
Still, when the Body of Christ is full of shit, perhaps it needs an asshole.
when the Body of Christ is full of shit, perhaps it needs an asshole
ReplyDeletePerfectly stated.
There are women out there who are at the end of their rope. The marriage is failing, the kids are rebelling, they hate their job, and they have no idea how they got into this mess or how to get out of it. They need Jesus but have completely shutdown on Christianity.
ReplyDeleteThey are like the woman at the well.
The typical Christian-woman blog is about recipes, homeschooled kids, and pretty pictures of aprons. For the woman at the well it is like looking at pictures of the moon. Alien and unreachable.
You, SD, are speaking a language she can understand. Thank you. Keep it up.
Thank you, Lori Kay.
ReplyDeleteIt is exactly that woman who I'm talking to. I know many of them personally. Feminism and this notion of equality has so infiltrated their thinking they have denied all that they were created for. It is fed to them from their mothers, their fathers, their churches, schools, etc. How could Dad be wrong? He told me to go to college and have a career. Why is everything falling apart? Why am I so stressed out. Why am I so reliant on medication just to feel...right?
Now, I have tons of fantastic recipes, excellent homeschool advice, and one apron that a friend bought me that says "I wine constantly." - It's perfect irony for me. However, none of this matters in the least when a woman's heart is fretful. She's tuned her husband out and in complete rebellion. This is the woman who needs to be told to shut her trap, recognize what she's doing is the source of her problems, and that she has the ability to make it all change if she'd get over her own damn self. She's wrong and needs a good verbal smack down - completely contrary to the pathetic advice her other feminist friends have been giving her: "try this anti-anxiety medication, you'll love it." "tell your husband you need help around the home." "get your unruly son on to some medications." "let's go out for a much needed girl's night out." "your new pixie cut is just adorable on you." "your husband needs to love you for who you are, don't stress about your extra weight." etc. etc. I've learned you need to tick them off enough in order to get them to start thinking. Everyone around them is "nice." Nice lying messengers of the enemy.
And, if you think they roll their eyes and look with derision at their husbands, you should see their response to Betty homemaker and her sweet Christian countenance and churchy words like "Bless your heart" and "I'll hold you up in prayer."
ReplyDelete