I have a question, and the more input I can get the better, so feel free to post this if you would like, although I confess I doubt it's going to be very relevant to most people. Still, I didn't want to derail another of your blog-comments sections.The best advice RLB and I can offer is for you to read 2 Corinthians 6:11-18. My suspicion is that you have been reading the Bible and are seeing the Truth calling out to you. You have the answers to your questions. You just want to see if there is an exclusion clause - one of the "it'll be okay if he's a good guy" exceptions." Or the "if you really love him, that's all that matters, things will work out."
My problem (if that's right) is this: in trying to change to be more submissive to become a better wife to my fiance (wedding in October), he is actually saying he is very uncomfortable with me making such changes. My motivation is (best as I can account for it!) to make him happier and be better helpmeet, to have a more peaceful home, and, let's be honest, to have that joy and peace I've witnessed among you and the other red pill ladies. There's definitely benefits for myself too, but I feel like I want to do it for US. As I explained all this to him, and we were trying to puzzle out why/how he was so uncomfortable with it, he asked that I put the question out to those who inspired me in the first place, so here I am.
I'll go ahead and give you some background, as well as my theory, and see what you make of it, if you can spare me the time.
So, we have been dating for almost 4 years, engaged since last October, cohabiting since the November before that. We originally fell into a sort of flip-flop of the traditional model - he had just gotten back from the military when we met and had no job so I paid for everything. We were fairly egalitarian in our decision-making, but I took the lead in most social situations as he and I both agree that he is basically what Alpha Game Plan describes as a sigma. I was also very defensive, and at least somewhat controlling. I was definitely "Strong, sassy independent!" Certainly, there were times I worried (and expressed to him) that, as a budding psychologist, some part of me was "in it" for the "fixer-upper" challenge. While both of us have our issues, his very troubled up-bringing made his more "noticeable" - so for quite a while it was all about how WE needed to fix HIM. He is basically secular - he has some beliefs, but they are extremely unorganized and he is pretty anti-religion.
It's been, eh, maybe a year and a half or so since I started looking into Christianity after finding To Love, Honor and Vacuum, then Dalrock, then SSM (and others, but these were the most influential in my interest in the Christian model of marriage). He mocks the manosphere and doesn't like to talk religion, so I didn't bother talking about it with him much after he rebuffed my initial attempts. (I also made some, eh, tactical errors in linking him to certain Rollo posts at the beginning which were probably not the best priming material)
Instead, over the last several months, I have simply tried to be more mindful of my behavior. Trying to make sure I am pleasant, not turning down requests, being more supportive, etc. Definitely not perfect! Haha! But better than I was. I also made my New Year's Resolution to read my entire Bible over the course of the year, rather than just the snippets from blog discussions.
In our initial conversations he expressed that he was wary of the Christian stuff because he was afraid of me turning into one of the Churchian hypocrites (not quite the words he used, but the sense) and getting all "God will provide! (so I can sit on my ass and not try!)" and that sort of thing. I reassured him (I thought) and he did admit that I had been easier to get along with and he liked that.
I started following some of Dalrock's advice to a reader who wanted to encourage her husband to be more take charge - the advice being to defer, to quietly transfer decisions to him, and basically to make a "leadership void" and let him fill it - and then, to appreciate and submit to his decisions. It was working, and I did see him begin to "step up" so to speak, and he seemed more confident to me.
Annnnnd then, a few days ago, I sent him links to amazon for the books "The Surrendered Wife" and "Fascinating Womanhood" and said, "Hey, I would like these at some point, maybe for my birthday or something." This was the SHTF moment. "Submission" is a bad word to him; he wonders why I want to change all this if I'm not unhappy, worries that I must BE unhappy, doesn't understand how a book published in the 60s could POSSIBLY be relevant any more, so on. He doesn't like the idea of the traditional wife, and seems to think that I want to become some sort of doormat/automaton that is incapable of making decisions and wants to be totally powerless.
I've tried to clarify all this, and it helped a bit, but he still remains fundamentally very wary. He talked with his shrink about this (he goes once a month) and it helped settle his mind some, but OTOH, he and his shrink both discussed that maybe I'm taking people's online personas too much at face value and not doing my research enough - not realizing just how long I've been looking, and not pestering him about it. Next month I will be going with him to talk with him and his shrink, so hopefully that'll help, but we'll see.
SOOOOO. That, I think, is all the relevant background (and maybe overkill - I tried to keep it short, but I'm not good at that) My theory, which I expressed to him, and he... kind of agrees with, but doesn't seem to feel fully explains his feelings.... Is that he is uncomfortable because, honestly, I am fundamentally changing "the agreement". I have been changing and will probably continue to change a lot from the person he first started dating. He didn't bargain on all this, and so has to decide if he's still "in". Part of why I recently DID start talking about all this with him is because I KNEW it was happening and didn't want to be deceptive about it - he has a right to know what he's signing up for, after all.
I know there are places for men to go vent when they go red pill and try to change the dynamic with their wives - but I didn't know where, as a woman to go when I'm red pill and trying to change with my future husband! Maybe I should have done like the men and just let my "game" do the work and not overtly address - but it seems to me that, while that works and is sensible and aligned with the male role for men to do, it doesn't seem aligned with the female role...
Sorry for the long story, and I know you are probably busy with your own family, but any insight you can share with me as to why this is bothering my fiance and what I can do to smooth the transition would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much for your time, your wonderful blog and comments, and for the guidance you have already offered me in prior posts!
My advice to you would be drastically different if you were already married. However, you are not. You are not yet involved in a Covenant marriage with God. God blesses the marriage of a submissive wife and an unbeliever, however I don't believe you'll be able to trick God - he will know you chose an unbeliever, on purpose. Also, I don't know of a single scripture to support that God will do anything more with your fiance in light of your submission. He is the same to you as any unbeliever. Certainly not hopeless to the Good News, but not sanctified by you as a husband would be. (1 Corinthians 7:14)
As a Christian, you have come to know the significance of the marriage relationship for the two who shall become one and for the children as you go forth and multiply. Can you honestly enter into a Covenant with God with this man when he has already expressed no desire to be obedient to God's commands for marriage? When he questions the very existence of the God he'd be in covenant with? That doesn't make sense. And I don't think it makes sense to you anymore either.
If you are just planning a state sanctioned marriage license, I'm afraid I'll be of little help. RLB and I do not give secular advice. There's no way we can. Your fiance has a subjective morality based upon something I haven't a clue about. In no way could I understand what is bothering him or what would help him. The possibilities are limitless.
There are many red flag indicators of marital failure in just this email you wrote to me. From the length of time you've been shacking up, the length of your engagement, mental instability, differing religious views. Statistically you don't have much going for you. I would never adivse for you to have children in this situation.
I'm curious to know your level of attraction for this man. As what you've mentioned wouldn't indicate the attraction to be very high. Marrying someone you are not attracted to is yet another set up for failure.
Your theory is correct, you are changing the deal. He does have a right to know what he's signing up for - that his future wife will not agree with him on fundamental life issues and will continually seek to fix him. I think he'd be right to walk away at this point as well and preserve himself from the devastation of divorce.