Sunday, April 14, 2013

Weenie Shaming - Doing my part

I am so disgusted by the MGTOWs whining about how unfair life is. I try really hard to hold back in order to help men that seek guidance. However, this particular brand of whining is the male version of women whining about how hard it is to lose weight. Actually, it's worse. I have coached enough young boys and lead enough men to see how what people call luck is actually work. If it were only my life, I could claim luck. Personally, I spent four years looking for a wife. Four years. That was my singular priority. I hear plenty of whining about how hard it is to find a wife from men that prioritize money and careers. I hear plenty of whining from men that don't want to be rejected by women. I hear all kinds of excuses. I have never met a man that has had the same determination about finding a wife as I did.

No female comments please. Especially if you are fat, are married and work for another man, don't submit to your husband, or any other I am woman hear me roar type of crap. Also, I'm not interested in non-Christian flights of fancy over this.

Please show me where this MGTOW mentality matches anything in the Bible. We are to be more than conquerors as men who listen to God. We are to lead our families. We are to be respected at the gates of the city. We are to put our talents to use. We are to challenge evil in the face of overwhelming odds. Why are these men so afraid of challenge in their life? Losing money/divorce is not a reason to ignore God's commands. Getting your feelings hurt is not a reason to ignore God's commands.

I am not lucky. Men with successful marriages are not lucky. Men with good wives are not lucky. Life is not a lottery. You too, can succeed in life if only you stop your whining.

46 comments:

  1. One man explains what MGTOW is:
    http://no-maam.blogspot.ca/2012/01/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow.html

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  2. First of all, what commands from God are you even talking about?

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  3. Alright RLB,

    Just as you are done with MGTOW rants, I am similarly done with Man-Up rants.

    You say you spent 4 years seriously looking for a wife? Great. How about you give some examples of what wasn't successful as compared to what was? 4 Years means you must have lot of wisdom to share. So why aren't you are sharing it instead of shaming? It sounds like a very useful series. How about you do some explaining as to why you thought SD would make an excellent wife despite all the factors that would insist she wouldn't? Why don't you explain why you were able to beat the odds (so far)?

    I think the major thing missing from all Man-Up rants is actual examples on why what that man did worked or didn't work.

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  4. Shaming you is the first step to finding a wife, so you realize you need to shut up and do some work. That "rant" as you called it was loaded with plenty of advice.

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    1. Demonstrate for me in ONE case that shaming actually works on men as opposed to encouraging or positive instruction. Shaming is for discouraging destructive female behavior, not for instruction and building of leaders.

      You cannot rise-up and uplift through shame.

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    2. If shaming men worked, the American church would have the most prolific generation of male leadership the world has ever seen.

      Delete
    3. shaming, man-up, grow a pair, same thing worded differently. Most men are lazy and don't want to put forth the effort to finding a "good" wife. I am not sure RLB was talking to you specifically. Clearly you want specifics, to have your hand held.

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    4. I've merely requested that he back is nonsense up with suggested corrective actions. Or is he Mark Driscoll, accusing Christian men of actively throwing all the Daughter's of God onto the cock carousel and White Knighting for a culture that deserves to perish.

      I'm asking him to Man-Up and put-up or shut up. As all men who claim to be leaders should do.

      Delete
  5. This post is full of conflation. The conflation of whining with MGTOW, seemingly inseparable. I agree whining is bad. Though i am not an MGTOW type, there is absolutely not any biblical admonishment that speaks against it IN GENERAL. In some of its forms it is ugly. In its pure form, literally meaning pure....its not at all ugly.

    I also do not understand the chest pounding about not meeting any other men who had the determination to find a wife that you did. Who cares? Where is the biblical virtue in that particular fixation, since you reference the alleged anti-biblical nature of MGTOW. Goals in general...sure, not quitting? sure.....But again, conflation, MGTOW is not equal to quitting necessarily. MGTOW can be a goal in and of itself.

    This is dangerously close to a churchian man shaming rant.

    Please show me where this MGTOW mentality matches anything in the Bible. We are to be more than conquerors as men who listen to God. We are to lead our families. We are to be respected at the gates of the city. We are to put our talents to use. We are to challenge evil in the face of overwhelming odds. Why are these men so afraid of challenge in their life? Losing money/divorce is not a reason to ignore God's commands. Getting your feelings hurt is not a reason to ignore God's commands.

    This paragraph has a few true vaguely statements wrapped in self edification and shaming of other men. Many of these things are in no way mutually exclusive to MGTOW. And while a man losing everything to a divorce where he is jettisoned frivolously from his home may not be an "excuse to ignore Gods commands" it is a perfectly viable excuse to MGTOW.
    I don't know if you've ever experienced that, being jettisoned by the will of the woman, losing home kids, family...everything....but its no less than the death of a loved one in magnitude. So, take this testosterone fueled screed to a funeral home and try it out there, because it lacks grace in both applications.

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  6. I would share RLB's challenge to MGTOW. They are just as selfish as anyone else. Our purpose on this world is not to do well for ourselves, it is to do well for our Lord.

    Deu 12:8 NKJV - "You shall not at all do as we are doing here today--every man doing whatever [is] right in his own eyes--
    Jdg 17:6 NKJV - In those days [there was] no king in Israel; everyone did [what was] right in his own eyes.
    Jdg 21:25 NKJV - In those days [there was] no king in Israel; everyone did [what was] right in his own eyes.
    Pro 12:15 NKJV - The way of a fool [is] right in his own eyes, But he who heeds counsel [is] wise.
    Pro 21:2 NKJV - Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes, But the LORD weighs the hearts.

    Note that going your own way is doing what is "right in your own eyes." You cannot build the next generation or even further the Gospel if you are just focused on yourself. Where will things be in 50 or 100 years if many men follow this path? Society would implode. Who will take care of the MGTOW when they are too old to care for themselves? They will push their care on the state (or attempt to do so) as much as anyone else. That is selfishness pure and simple.

    Yes it is a hard environment, but too bad. Put on your big boy pants and grow up. Don't be so against some of the modern error that you go into the ditch on the other side.

    I should write up more on this, but the core idea is that God made a man to be with a woman, not alone. He made us for that intimate bond and we need to put the effort into things to at least attempt to accomplish it. Not doing so is being a very poor steward of what we have and will have us be more like the unjust steward in the parable who just hid his master's money rather than attempting to gain with it.

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    1. Brad, you are incorrect.

      Genesis 2, beginning at verse 18 says

      18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

      19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

      But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

      Notice the point. God created the woman FOR man, and God brought her TO the man: to be his helper.

      Men are not supposed to go "seeking" a helpmate as though they are incomplete without one. The fault in our society is not that men "need to man up [and marry those sluts]"; rather, the fault is that the women are not "Womaning up and becoming fit helpmates for the men" instead preferring to ride the Carousel and then blaming men for not being like their "Personal Boyfriend Jesus", such that they don't *have* to submit because he's like, you know, not spiritual enough (as indicated by his willingness to submit to *her*).

      Nice try, though.

      Delete
  7. Paul actually commends those who stay single to serve God. I agree with you insofar that a man shouldn't retreat from something if he is afraid. There is a host of reasons to avoid marriage (as Empathological stated) and most are valid. But, if you are going MGTOW, then don't whine about a lack of good women. Just like if you are married, don't whine about a lack of freedom, cost of kids, struggling with wife, etc. You made your bed, now lie in it.

    I imagine you have a lot of wisdom to share RLB, but I think you could benefit from sorting through what you are going to say before shooting it out half-cocked. It reminds me of Athol's more visceral and emotional posts. Sometimes they are good, sometimes it just makes you cringe.

    I want to hear what you have learned about establishing your authority in your home after years of letting your wife do what she wants. I would like to know how you felt in those moments so that I can anticipate what that will feel like for myself (in the case I fuck things up), or the advice I can give to a Beta husband.

    What do you do on a daily basis to "keep your wagon moving" in your current physical condition. What do you do to lead your family, your wife, etc? I have people in my life who, after taking the red pill, ask me these questions. I don't have answers because I am not married and I do not have kids.

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  8. I have never considered myself a MGTOW, but it seems that you have come to regard me as such. I'm not sure exactly what gave you that impression. Have a whined about the lack of good women out there? Looking back, yes I have. It was undignified, and thus beneath me as a man. I will do my best to avoid it in the future. But I don't see how I can be considered a coward. As others have noted, this comes damned close to a "man-UP" shaming rant.

    To substantively address what you wrote:


    "Please show me where this MGTOW mentality matches anything in the Bible."

    1 Corinthians 7.


    "We are to be more than conquerors as men who listen to God. We are to lead our families. We are to be respected at the gates of the city. We are to put our talents to use. We are to challenge evil in the face of overwhelming odds."

    Agreed.

    "Why are these men so afraid of challenge in their life?"

    I cannot speak for others, but I am not afraid to confront the challenges of the world. But that doesn't mean I will foolishly seek them out.

    "Losing money/divorce is not a reason to ignore God's commands. Getting your feelings hurt is not a reason to ignore God's commands."

    What commands? Tell me, where in the Bible does God command a man to be married? Where? From what I can tell, the Bible seems to indicate that there is nothing wrong with not marrying, if you can do so while avoiding sexual sins. Thus far I have avoided committing such sins, and am confident that I can continue to do so if I must.

    Scripture calls on me to life a holy life, a life of righteousness. To walk the narrow path. That is my goal, my mission, my calling. If I can find a partner along the way who can help me walk the path, and I can help her walk the path as well, then I will marry her and we will walk it together, so long as we both may live. If I don't find such a woman, then I will continue to walk it. Either way, I will never be alone, because God will always be there with me.

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  9. Congrats on finding a wife like almost everyone in the world. Good job wiping your ass too.

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  10. How about you give some examples of what wasn't successful as compared to what was?

    What do you think I have done with my posts? Our intention of posting has to do with creating a history of our beliefs to hand down to our children and grandchildren. I am as detailed as I can be in order to leave no doubts for them. I am not alone in this. Plenty of others give examples as well.

    Demonstrate for me in ONE case that shaming actually works on men as opposed to encouraging or positive instruction.

    Every sports team I have ever been participant or coach of. Also every military organization and every sales organization.

    Most men are lazy and don't want to put forth the effort to finding a "good" wife. I am not sure RLB was talking to you specifically. Clearly you want specifics, to have your hand held.

    This. Exactly. Thank you.

    Congrats on finding a wife like almost everyone in the world. Good job wiping your ass too.

    Turrets much. Window lickers freaking everywhere. Pay attention to my intended audience moron.

    If these MGTOW were so happy about their pursuit of righteousness, we wouldn’t hear how tough it is to find a good woman from them. If you are complaining about something you don’t want to do anything about, you are a coward. Brad is dead on. Not many monks in the manosphere.

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  11. Pay attention to my intended audience moron.

    Define your intended audience better. Window lickers indeed.

    A sales organization as an example of where shaming works? EVERY sales organization? The military?
    Fail....



    It is neither solipsism nor narcissism for a man to take a cringe from your post. Its not a function of not knowing the intended audience.

    I am not sure, still, where you and Brad are coming from with the "God made men to be with a woman" stuff.

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  12. Empath, if you are the one that said, Congrats on finding a wife like almost everyone in the world. Good job wiping your ass too., then yes window licker. Are you the one that said that?

    Cringing from hearing something you don't like does not necessarily mean what was said is wrong.

    There's the part where, "It is not good for the man to be alone." There's the go forth and multiply thing too. And yes the vast majority of organizations like I mention use shame. He only asked for ONE.

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  13. "There's the part where, "It is not good for the man to be alone." There's the go forth and multiply thing too."

    I think you very much need to examine the assumptions you are making when you come to your conclusions here.
    What wasn't good? Why? (Hint: Think about how hard man actually has to work to only take care of himself). It would make sense that Adam just kinda laid around and didn't work very hard because he didn't have to. God made woman to be with man, not vice versa, to view it vice-versa is to define the Bible through the Feminine Imperative, and God didn't define it that way.

    "And yes the vast majority of organizations like I mention use shame. He only asked for ONE."

    Shame is a really bad motivator. In fact, if the intended target decides he no longer cares about your message or your attempt to shame him.

    Remember that guy who couldn't do a damn thing right in Basic?
    What happened when he decided he no longer cared about the Drill Sergeant's attempts to shame and punish him? He gave up and went his own way, mentally (if not physically). He became inoculated to the yelling of the Drill Sergeant. The insults bounced off and he no longer cared about living up the cadre's expectations.

    I don't know your experience in leadership, but any half-decent leader knows that a positive reason is far more motivational than a negative one.

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    1. I'd also point out that shame heaping is just a giant shit-test that results in 2 other outcomes. Either the person responds to the shaming attempt by supplicating to it or ignoring it.

      If the individual being shamed, in this case men, respond in agreement, then their follow-up actions with be supplicatory. They will be submitting themselves to the shamer's frame. What do we know about men who easily supplicate their frame to others? How does that make these men more attractive.

      I covered the ignore option in the previous comment. The person being shamed decides they no longer care anymore.

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  14. I’ve been married for over twenty years and it is by far the most
    irresponsible thing I’ve ever done.

    Ya, I have one of the most “successful” marriages among my Christian friends and family, and it’s a sham. I used to be embarrassed by my fellow Christians because they would take the deepest thoughts of God and turn them into motivational posters to feed men into the machine. Now I’m just amused.

    MGTOW is a broad camp. In its purest, red pill form, it is the most
    starkly courageous stand a man can take in the face of the untenable. The
    untenable is marriage and, increasingly, LTR’s with women when the risks
    of that behavior will steal your children, money, livelihood and freedom.

    I’ve seen more than a few “successful” marriages destroyed and ministries
    devastated by everything from a bored wife to trumped-up allegations of
    abuse. I know they were trumped up because wives later admitted their
    lawyers told them to do it. They always use that tactic to get an upper
    hand for custody.

    No one thinks there are no trade-offs in life but only a fool weighs
    trade-offs with imaginary criteria.

    Marriage 1.0 doesn’t exist. To believe it does is irrational and churchian
    naivity.

    If you took a business contract to a lawyer that stated the contract could
    be dissolved unilaterally to the advantage of only one of the partners
    they’d laugh at you for being irresponsible enough to consider it.

    If you further described the contract to your lawyer explaining that when
    your partner dissolved the contract they could bring the full force and
    power of the world’s most powerful enforcement agency to their bidding,
    your lawyer would stop chuckling at you and reach for some aspirin.

    Finally, you tell your trusted attorney that even after being kicked out
    of the business, you would have to live in poverty because almost half of
    your income would go to fund a business you could no longer derive any
    benefit from, and that 90% of the time the enforcement agency would give
    your children to the business as hostages, and that you would also lose
    your shelter, and if at any time you lose your income you could be thrown
    into debtor’s prison and be labeled a criminal, your attorney would ask you
    to leave and come back after your prescription was filled.

    “Men with successful marriages are not lucky.”

    I agree, I am not lucky; I’m on borrowed time.

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  15. Empath, if you are the one that said, Congrats on finding a wife like almost everyone in the world. Good job wiping your ass too., then yes window licker. Are you the one that said that?

    Its your blog man....scroll and look. No, wasn't me. But your hairy arms are sexy when you roll your sleeves up.

    Cringing from hearing something you don't like does not necessarily mean what was said is wrong.

    Right. It means its poorly conceived.

    There's the part where, "It is not good for the man to be alone."

    Not an imperative for a man to find a wife. Its an explanation of why woman was made.

    yes the vast majority of organizations like I mention use shame.

    No shaming in sales organizations, if its a group of professionals. Ive taken every silly major selling course there has been in vogue for 28 years.
    Shaming is done in military and sports. It is among other components that, together may render motivation. Alone....not so much.

    Shaming men? You and the churchians.....its not courageous or cutting edge....its just more cow bell.

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  16. See it's funny. If you label me something I know I'm not, I laugh and move on. When I label the MGTOWs cowards, quitters, and weak; they inundate the post to try and justify why they aren't those things.

    This whole post has been so interesting about how shaming works. Men react to be called cowards and quitters the same way women do when you call them fat. It can't possibly be that you need to take personal responsibility.

    All these defenders of MGTOW say the same thing. It's about money and hurt feelings. There is also the Paul said it's good to be unmarried. I don't recall the part where he said it was fine to whine about not being able to get married because it's all women's fault. And again, not many monks on the manosphere.

    I've been in plenty of shaming based sales organizations. Selling courses have to be PC. The successful sales groups are shaming in nature.

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    1. Redlegben,

      I'm not sure that I agree entirely -- may I coin the phrase "NAMGTOWALT" instead of "NAWALT"?
      (Incidentally, BMOTA.)

      I think it would depend on whether a man has either experienced, or has had a front-row seat to the experience, of Frivorce / Divorce Rape / False Allegations; or, whether he has actively tried to *seek out* feminine women (and not necessarily in the places where Churchians decree them to be, speaking of "Man Up and Marry Those Sluts"

      The distressing part is that many men, having been fed on blue pills in their youth, don't happen to *know* where to look for the few remaining feminine women, and often miss their chance, having been elsewhere (Church of Oprah, large secular university) while the few feminine women were being courted (some Christian colleges, some traditional Churches such as Catholic / Orthodox, quietly and lonely-ly reading by themselves in the corner of a bookstore, etc.)

      Full Disclosure: married before the current SMP / hookup culture was in full swing.

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  17. What ever makes you think that having a wife under today's circumstances, even remotely resembles what Biblical marriage ever intended?

    If marriage as the Bible intended is completely opposite of what marriage is in society - and in the church, then how can you be such a fool to rant and rave that men aren't stepping up to buy fool's gold?

    For example, do you believe that fathers should have default custody of children? Because that is what marriage has been throughout the history of civilization - and it comes from the Bible!

    Seems to me that you are the weenie, for not recognizing these very important changes that happened to marriage.

    There were only a few thousand divorces annually in the mid-nineteenth century when divorce cost wives their children and Dad’s paycheck. This family stability began eroding as later nineteenth century divorce courts, under pressure from the rising feminist movement, began awarding child custody to mothers. -- Daniel Amneus, The Case for Father Custody, p360

    “Between 1870 and 1920 the divorce rate rose fifteenfold, and by 1924 one marriage out of seven ended in divorce" -- James H. Jones, Alfred Kinsey: A Public/Private Life (New York: W. W. Norton, 1997), p.292.

    Stop demanding that we "man up" and buy a fraud.

    Why do you think fathers "give away" the Bride?

    Why do you think women of the past, when pregnant before marriage, would ask the father if he would "give them his name?"

    It's the churches themselves that dropped the ball. Don't go blaming men for your own problems.

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    1. You might want to read more of my posts. I don't give a crap what society/legal says about marriage. I do blame the churches. Again read more before revealing the fact that you have no clue what my position on these issues are. None of your whinings change what men are called to do by biblical morality. If you don't subscribe to biblical morality, you are in the wrong place.

      Fair warning to other MGTOWs, read more of my posts before you think you know me. I am actually your friend. I'm just not nice in my admonishment of you.

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    2. You are the reason why people like me my reject churchianity.

      Why don't you THINK before you post stupid crap about MGTOW?

      NOTHING about marriage resembles the Bible, and YOU WEENIES in the Church will do nothing to stand up for yourselves and even force the government to declare the Bible false, or acknowledge that Christians have the right to Freedom of Religion, and practice marriage legally as God intended.

      STFU, moron. Islam has more balls than you.

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    3. MGTOW doesn't work with Christianity anymore than communism or feminism does. I'm not in a church because I reject the feminism of it. Really, read more before posting again. I will not rehash everything I have said before. If you shit in my yard again, I will ban you.

      Your inability to think beyond what your government allows makes you soft in your thinking. You have displayed zero knowledge about what we write here. You are embarrassing yourself. Feel free to tell me how much I control your life because of your willingness to read my blog. It is amusing. Jump rabbit, jump.

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    4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    5. I tried. I really did. I suggest you fill out a hurt feelings report

      I welcome debate like I welcome people in my home. If you shit in the doorway when you walk in and I tell you not to do that again, please don't. If you have turrets, let me know right away.

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  18. Our intention of posting has to do with creating a history of our beliefs to hand down to our children and grandchildren. I am as detailed as I can be in order to leave no doubts for them....... No doubt that you are an angry bald headed person who loves to call people names... now that is a shame, great legacy

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    1. Thank you. I come from a long line of bald headed, self-reliant, men that call evil, evil. It's what we do. Have a nice day.

      Delete
  19. RLB....

    I must have missed something earlier in the comments or elsewhere as to the specific topic you are going after. I am confused and am pretty much on top of things...

    Possibly a definition of what you are talking about (MGTOW is already defined) - yet the context of your post?

    You do state in a lower paragraph this....
    "Please show me where this MGTOW mentality matches anything in the Bible."

    I would posit that *Jesus* himself is a perfect example of MGTOW - bucking trends, going against the mainstream, completely confusing the 'herd'....

    In OT times, Jews were looking for actually *TWO* messiahs, - Mashiach ben Yoseph, and Mashiach ben David.... One a conquering King, the other a suffering servant.

    http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Mashiach_ben_Yosef/mashiach_ben_yosef.html

    I would suggest that Jesus completely fulfills the suffering servant, yet when he comes again - He will DEFINITELY be the Conquering King...

    yet when Jesus came, the Jewish folks were looking for the Conquering King because of Roman oppression. Jesus did not fulfill the desires at the time, yet as the suffering servant - *DEFINITELY* went his own way....

    So I would say MGTOW was pretty much a good metaphor for Jesus and his first visit here..... and whoa - lookout - he'll really go his own way when he comes again.....

    = OR =

    I missed the context of your post completely - for this I ask forgiveness....

    Rory

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    1. I have no issue with the instruction of Paul regarding marriage. The problem I find with MGTOWs is they whine far too much to appear as a man pursuing religious Truth. The majority of the whining is about how there aren't good women to marry. Paul's instruction is about men that can deny their sexual needs (without porn or prostitutes). It is obvious from the whining that the majority of the MGTOWs can't deny this urge.

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    2. I would posit that *Jesus* himself is a perfect example of MGTOW - bucking trends, going against the mainstream, completely confusing the 'herd'....

      ((Jesus was here to kick ass and get married--symbolically speaking, anyway. He did set a lot of records straight, but He also "manned up", if you'll excuse the horrific pun, and got engaged to a reformed slut, also known as the Church--and you know at what cost. When He returns, it'll be for the Wedding.

      ((Biblical symbolism is not just ars gratia artis.))

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  20. It's not really whining to say that marriageable women are hard to find -- it's just an observation, one that you may or may not agree with, depending on your perspective. FWIW I think it's generally valid for the most part, particularly when you're talking about women older than 25 or so. Almost all women older than 25 are either former carousel riders or alpha widows, or maybe both. And with the legal situation being what it is in the modern west, a man who marries an alpha widow is taking a considerable risk of EPL and divorce theft (or if she doesn't leave him, once in a blue moon sex while she daydreams about the frat boy who used to bang her in college). Of course, each man must decide for himself whether or not the potential benefits of such a marriage are worth these risks.

    Now with that being said, let me add that if a man doesn't think there are any marriageable women out there available for him, then the best thing for him to do (from a Christian standpoint anyway) would be to find other things to do with his life that don't involve pursuing women, or complaining about their hypergamy or sluttiness or whatever. Besides, if he's truly "going his own way" then the quality of available women or their sex lives should be irrelevant to him, since it doesn't really affect him in any way (aside from having to pay more taxes to support the single moms of the welfare state I guess).

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    1. I agree that marriageable women over the age of 25 are hard to find. Yes, men must take financial risk to marry in Western society. That has nothing to do with, "go forth and multiply."

      I really don't care about society's view on marriage nor do I care about the risks men take in getting married. Following God's commands for your life does not guarantee prosperity. I want to have a conversation about how to fix things in the Christian clan here in Western society.

      Whiners, quitters, and losers need not apply. If you don't have an action plan, go join a twelve step program and find someone to hug. MGTOWs are whiners. I understand the movement. If you don't believe the Bible means anything, you are completely justified in your belief system. I might not understand your belief system, but that's fine. It makes logical sense...unless you are a Christian. Then, you have to either be a monk or you don't care what God says.

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  21. Ah, I hadn't noticed before but sounds like you're pulling a Mark Driscoll now. Man up and get married, even if the only women available are former carousel riders whose hearts still belong to lovers from their pasts. And if they go EPL, too bad, it's your fault, sucks to be you.

    Sorry, I'll pass. And if God burns me in hell for refusing to marry an ungrateful whore.. well, I think I'd rather be in hell than in heaven with a god like that anyway.

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    1. I said nothing about marrying ungrateful whores. I'm talking about what men do in their lives. If you can't fix a woman with your words, you are failing or the bitch ain't worth it.

      I went through four years of sifting women to find one that was worth it. I have wrote plenty about my standards and protocols. The MGTOWs don't want to commit to that type of mission because it's hard and takes time away from their careers. And worse, what if they pick wrong? Oh the horror! Their feelings will get hurt or worse...they could lose money.

      Delete
  22. Something missing in the discussion of all the failures is that many marriages still succeed. VoxDay had a post on that in AlphaGame a fair while back. Yeah, life sucks, but no one promised us an easy time.

    @donalgraeme
    I would note that MGTOW are not going Jesus' way by definition. They are going their own way! That is the flaw in their argument. They are following another matter of hedonism.

    I note that as someone who almost lost his marriage after raising 4 adopted children that all turned on us and never really accepted us as parents. The youngest almost talked my wife into leaving. I don't know what I would do today, but I know I would be in full sin if I went with MGTOW and justified it because of the legal environment. I might still do that because I am stubborn enough, but it would be wrong.

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  23. "The youngest almost talked my wife into leaving."

    Nice! Your wife is counseled and influenced by a child...AGAINST you?

    Sounds like a solid situation, I think I'll tell young men to Man Up now that I've heard that story.

    What could possibly go wrong by not considering the cost of an action before endeavoring to do it?

    Man Up, blind men! 8)

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  24. It was one of my children that turned out not to have a bond with us, as with the others, in spite of us raising her. (They were an adopted sibling group.)

    It is more than ironic that she is now married to a guy who can't work for more than a few weeks and does other things that I find reprehensible.

    My children came from a really rough background and made me more convinced that biology carries a lot more weight than we thought, unfortunately.

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  25. @Anonomous (way up there)
    > I’ve been married for over twenty years and it is by far the most
    irresponsible thing I’ve ever done.

    That is bunk. Being married for that long is something, even if it had lots of warts and flaws. I don't know how keeping a covenant, however imperfectly can be the worst thing anyone has done.

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    1. "@Anonomous (way up there)
      > I’ve been married for over twenty years and it is by far the most
      irresponsible thing I’ve ever done."

      @Brad - “That is bunk. Being married for that long is something, even if it had lots of warts and flaws. I don't know how keeping a covenant, however imperfectly can be the worst thing anyone has done.”

      My Original Post:

      "No one thinks there are no trade-offs in life but only a fool weighs
      trade-offs with imaginary criteria.

      Marriage 1.0 doesn’t exist. To believe it does is irrational and churchian
      naivity.

      If you took a business contract to a lawyer that stated the contract could be dissolved unilaterally to the advantage of only one of the partners they’d laugh at you for being irresponsible enough to consider it.

      If you further described the contract to your lawyer explaining that when your partner dissolved the contract they could bring the full force and power of the world’s most powerful enforcement agency to their bidding, your lawyer would stop chuckling at you and reach for some aspirin.

      Finally, you tell your trusted attorney that even after being kicked out of the business, you would have to live in poverty because almost half of your income would go to fund a business you could no longer derive any benefit from, and that 90% of the time the enforcement agency would give your children to the business as hostages, and that you would also lose your shelter, and if at any time you lose your income you could be thrown into debtor’s prison and be labeled a criminal, your attorney would ask you to leave and come back after your prescription was filled.

      “Men with successful marriages are not lucky.”

      I agree, I am not lucky; I’m on borrowed time."

      I didn’t saying KEEPING a covenant was the worst thing. Keeping a covenant ISN’T the worst thing…Thus, I’m still here. ENTERING into a covenant with imaginary, wishful churchian criteria is as dishonoring to God as it is dangerous.

      I repeated what I wrote because I wanted to make sure we keep what I said in context. I think it’s important as Christians to retrieve critical thinking from the dust bin and choose our words honestly, not emotionally.

      I feel bad for my Christian brothers, I honestly do. Many are wandering into a shredder and the rest are yelling at them to Man Up and run faster.

      God bless those poor men.

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  26. Just more proof christians are pure poison when it comes to mens movements ...

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    1. Yes. Men are supposed to lead not whine if Christian. Feel free to prove MGTOWs aren't whining by biblical standards.

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