Thursday, April 25, 2013

MGTOWs are losers. Part III.

By: RedLegBen
The problem with Christian MGTOWs is that they are not attractive to women. They don't want to change their ways. They enjoy whining about the failings of women, but ignore their own failings. The bottom 25% of marriageable men should not include Christian men. The characteristics of high value marriageable men are Christian attributes. Leadership, confidence, provision, success, masculinity, bravery, and fitness are all controllable attributes for a Christian man.

If you have those characteristics, women will flock to you. I don't care if you have ears that can receive HBO. Those characteristics put you in the top half of marriageable men. Until you have taken care of those things in your life, you have no right to bitch about the quality of women available to marry. You aren't marriageable material. Fix your damn self. The MGTOW movement does nothing to help these losers. I get it. You were brought up in a feminist manner. Change. Get your self right first.

How many MGTOWs threaten to go to another country and marry? If only they had the money. Guess what. Having the money would be one of those qualities that makes you marriageable in the first place. We do these men no service by ignoring their sins (i.e. masturbation/lust/coveting) and supplicating their laziness about self improvement.

*As always, when speaking of MGTOWs, I consider the Paul/celibate gift type of man to be a different situation entirely.

107 comments:

  1. I see you've complety given up trying to Biblically justify your tantrum (I know you cant) and instead have gone the route of shaming language to the Feminine Imperative.

    I'd just like to point out you married a woman with an N=80+. And you use my points to call me a loser?
    Lolololololololololz

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    1. HAHAHA! Good point! I'm the loser, ar. I got married and didn't listen to guys like you.

      Mark 14:28 Ignoring the modern cost and the legal environment of modern marriage is not honoring God.

      It's destroying the opportunity you had to honor God with full-time commitment to his service.

      MGTOW

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  2. If anyone hasn't read my story, what ar is talking about can be found here:
    Amazing Grace
    It is very overwhelming the amount RLB has forgiven me. Luke 7:47

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  3. Ar, I already mentioned the essence of the Biblical case in another thread. Perhaps I will type it out later, but you are also going against clear Biblical commands to carry out God's Will in spite of the difficulty that is woven throughout the Scriptures.

    Being hard doesn't mean we have a justification to quit. The problem is that it is much easier to quit than to persevere and risk personal discomfort.

    I could easily have been in your shoes 20 years ago, had I not married about 5 years before through a marriage arranged by God. I likely pushed off a few, but then few single women were involved in the churches I was attending. It doesn't magically happen. It is persistence and God's empowerment that are needed. That may be hard if you, like many, are effectively operating solely based on your own earthly wisdom.

    That doesn't mean life will be trivial. My wife and I have had our challenges. Having adopted children because none came otherwise didn't help things either when they all bailed on our family as adults. I should be quite cynical by experience and I fight it myself. Though I will not give up on God's clear statement that "It is not good for man to be alone." Why do you insist on that?

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    1. Sorry, but none have demonstrated that by not being married I'm violating God's will.

      According to Scripture, a good wife is a gift from God. So, He'll provide this gift on His time, should He see fit. Or when she hits the Wall and gets Baby Rabies. Right?

      "It is not good for man to be alone."
      WHAT isn't good?

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    2. That was said in the context of God providing Eve, so it is pretty clear it meant that "not partnered with a wife" not some vague alone.

      Though believe what you want.

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    3. Proverbs 19:14
      "House and wealth are an inheritance from fathers, But a prudent wife is from the LORD."

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    4. Just dropped in your lap? Given to you as a neatly packaged gift? Why? Why would the Lord bless you with a prudent wife?

      What of the parable of the talents?

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    5. That Scripture is true as well ar. All our searching is in vain without His help. Though don't just cherry pick them. I had the one about finding a wife either below or in the other thread. You have to find her. SD's note about the parables points that it takes diligent searching, not just waiting for it to come or only looking where you are.

      It reminds me of the story of the drunk who was looking for his keys under the light pole. He said he lost them in the bushes, but was looking here because the light was better. You may need to look in some places that take some work rather than just complaining about the ones you find in the places you had been going.

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    6. Admirable CrichtonJune 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM

      If a prudent wife is a gift from heaven, I wonder where all the others are being sent from?

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    7. Perhaps you should read the rest of the Proverb if you'd like to know why one man would receive such a gift from the Lord and another wouldn't.

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  4. It seems your unforgiving heart of how you were raised, the lies you believed, and the women who were not attracted to you (which is their natural response) is what might be standing in your way. Your comments drip with disdain, unforgivness, and blame:
    -The answer to this is early marriage. The women refused it.

    -I was most distracted by shiny boobies during my late teens and most of my 20's. To say I burned with passion is a understatement. However, I was taught anti-game growing up through parents and the church so I couldn't buy a date during those years and was ignored by the "good, Christian women." So during the best time for me to marry I wasn't able to get married. When I needed to be married the most, none were willing. So why should I respond when these women my age start feeling biological pull on their bodies and THAT biological pull is much more worthy than the one I dealt with from age 16 to 28? Because they did so much for me?

    -Oh that's right, men aren't supposed to have emotions and if they do they are invalid. I should just forget that I wasted 12 years being sexually frustrated. Be quiet.


    Your question of what isn't good is moot, you have stated yourself that you want a wife and have a date in mind of when you'll travel to other countries to find one if one hasn't been provided to you here. The question is why? Why do you want a wife, ar? Within the answer to that question is the answer to "WHAT isn't good."

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  5. It is very overwhelming the amount RLB has forgiven me. Luke 7:47

    I probably should have remembered that. I apologize for throwing words around a little freely.

    The characteristics of high value marriageable men are Christian attributes. Leadership, confidence, provision, success, masculinity, bravery, and fitness are all controllable attributes for a Christian man.

    I totally agree, but how many churches teach this? Mine did, through an mens fraternity, but I didn't go.

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  6. My question is moot, but it isn't. Just such a contradiction I've come to expect here.

    And of course, when I challenge your points my challenge gets ignored and routed back to "why are you angry?" This evades you being held accountable to the words you've spoken and wrong ideas youve put forth. Anything I've said about myself has only been turned and weaponized as a personal attack against me.

    What about Creation wasn't good when man was alone? I'll answer for you. Man didn't have to work very hard so he didn't. God didn't like this since He wanted Adam to do more. So He gave him a reason. And that reason brought about the Fall. Notice how Adam didn't sin until after Eve was brought to him? If Creation wasn't complete with Adam being alone, how much worse was it when sin entered it?

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    1. Wow, really flawed reasoning there.

      - Adam had plenty of work. Mental - naming the animals. Physical - tending the garden. This was before Eve and before the fall. Do you really blame God for bringing bad into Adam's life? Perhaps I am missing a point here.

      Gen 2:18 NKJV - And the LORD God said, "[It is] not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him."

      Do note that Adam chose to sin, Eve was deceived. Adam's part in the fall was his own choice, not Eve's fault.

      Getting mad for people saying you are angry is a further illustration of it. You show a lot of anger in your posts. Why are you shocked that others notice it?

      How much effort are you putting into finding a good wife? Note that the Scripture says

      Pro 18:22 NKJV - [He who] finds a wife finds a good [thing], And obtains favor from the LORD.

      That implies a lot of searching, not just a casual waiting for God to drop one out of the heavens.

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    2. This "man didn't have to work very hard, so he didn't" theory is new to me.

      18 And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” 19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

      21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
      - Genesis 2:18-21

      It really doesn't make sense that a helper would be needed if God's intent was as AR says: "God didn't like this since He wanted Adam to do more"

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    3. A man only has to work at about 20% capacity to survive by himself. He has to greatly increase his production in order to provide for a family. Companies know this. Statistics prove this.

      Adam never asked for a helper. God decided He wanted Adam to have one because something wasn't good. What that "something" was, was that Adam wasn't working very hard at subduing the Earth and the garden because he didn't need too. He worked enough to feed himself for the day (1-2 hours) and then relaxed the rest of it. Why do I say this? Because this is what men will do now when work can be much harder. How much more would they slack off if all they had to do was cut a few branches and decide they were done for the day? Remember, in Eden things grew wonderfully well and easily.

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    4. Adam never asked for a helper

      Of what relevance is this?

      Nothing you've said is based on scripture. Though what you state clearly exhibits your rebellion to God. As well it exhibits the very evil that is the MGTOW movement.

      Slack off dear MGTOW.

      14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

      20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’

      24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’

      26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

      29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
      - Matthew 25:14-30


      For those reading, may we all desire the words:
      Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.

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    5. You know better than God ar? That is amazing arrogance.

      I would argue that Adam could see that all the animals he named had a mate (except possibly for really low-level stuff, though I am not sure he named every bacteria at that time, for example), so he could see he was left out.

      Adam himself proclaimed that Eve was his completion. Note too that he chose to follow her in rebellion rather than lose her - she had a pretty important role to him.

      I can see why you are so cynical though, you have set yourself up as knowing more than God. That is the foundation of all kinds of danger. Look at how much good it did Lucifer.

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  7. Again, props to AR. Because shaming men is easy!

    gdgm+

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  8. Leadership, confidence, provision, success, masculinity, bravery, and fitness are all controllable attributes for a Christian man.

    In fairness, only to an extent. Some people just have limited capacity, due to physical or mental handicaps. We should have charity to notice that they're doing their best, but "should" doesn't always intersect "is".

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  9. Have you ever heard of Nick Vujicic?

    http://www.lifewithoutlimbs.org/

    I should do a post on him. I've been following him for a couple years. He is married to a beautiful woman and now has a child.

    "From no limbs to no limits"

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    1. And don’t forget Oscar Pistorius and his model girlfriend

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  10. If you've got a facebook account, here is a picture of Nick and his bride.

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  11. Catastrophic disabilities can lend a strength and protection of their own. Would anyone pick on Mr. Vujicic without being beaten down by everyone else? (Not to discount his valiant efforts. God's working through him for sure.)

    Also, I notice that his wife looks Asian. Where and how did they meet? I did a quick once-over of the site, but I'm rapidly running out of free time.

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  12. I should clarify that my point is not that a man shouldn't maximize what he has available, nor that the MGTOW movement isn't poison. I agree with you there. I'm just saying that every man has his limits, and not every man is going to be able to turn himself into Studmuffin the Sex Symbol with harems of women following him around.

    Not without God's will. And I'm not convinced that God wills that for every man.

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  13. Nick was bullied and was suicidal at one point. I haven't read his book yet, I've heard he tells how he met his wife in it.

    http://waitingtillmarriage.org/motivational-speaker-nick-vujicic-waited-until-marriage/

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  14. "The problem with Christian MGTOWs is that they are not attractive to women."

    Would this be an instance of NAMALT? There are a few MGTOW who are Christian, but not many from what I can tell. And I don't know whether they are attractive or not, so doesn't this seem like a bit of a leap?

    "They don't want to change their ways. They enjoy whining about the failings of women, but ignore their own failings."

    Isn't the crux of the MGTOW argument that the women aren't worth it for them to self-improve? It isn't so much ignorance of their own failings but no desire to fix them. I don't find this any better myself though. A Christian man should always strive to improve himself, in all areas of life. We don't want to follow in the footsteps of the foolish servant with a single talent.

    "The bottom 25% of marriageable men should not include Christian men."

    Agreed. Unfortunately, many churches do their best to ensure it."

    "Leadership, confidence, provision, success, masculinity, bravery, and fitness are all controllable attributes for a Christian man."

    Absolutely. Looks are of minor importance compared to the masculine power you display in life.

    "How many MGTOWs threaten to go to another country and marry?"

    I'm not sure they are MGTOW's are if they talking about going overseas to marry. MGTOW is about rejecting women, period. The idea behind going overseas is to avoid American women, not women period, so not really MGTOW. At least, that is what I understand of them.

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    1. > Looks are of minor importance compared to the masculine power you display in life.

      I would bet that the attitude of most drive off women, including by downgrading their looks.

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    2. I wouldn't take that bet Andrew. In a way, as men we are lucky. Our character, our attitude, our Frame determines our attractiveness; whereas women are stuck with pure physical features.

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  15. What Sigyn says here about feminism reminds me a lot of the MGTOW movement:
    This is a standard Leftist obfuscation: If you disagree with me, it is because you are not aware of all the facts. It is an attempt to recast the leftist as the educated and world-wise one; in fact, it's the same thing as waving a diploma and declaring oneself the "expert" simply because they took classes and read the right books. Regardless of the facts that you bring to bear, you will always be ignorant because you are not "educated".

    This is doubly true when trying to level an accusation at feminism. Because feminism is inherently undefinable (it seems to mean whatever the immediate speaker personally believes), you will always be directed to "read some feminist theory". Even if you bring up a mainstream feminist, you will be informed that said feminist is really "a radical" and "doesn't speak for feminists" because "that's not what feminism is about". And they wonder why so few women are now willing to call themselves feminists...


    I've read such vastly different definitions of what MGTOW is it has, to me, become the grown man's version of forever thinking like an adolescent. "I'm cleaning my room, not because you told me to, mom, but because I want to.

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    1. Admirable CrichtonJune 7, 2013 at 7:33 PM

      What your neglecting to acknowledge here is that it’s not men that have changed, it’s marriage.

      The feminisation of the family courts and the systematic erosion of a husbands rights, has turned the institution of marriage into a grotesque parody of the true marriages our grandparents enjoyed.

      What businessman would enter into a merger, on the understanding that the other company could cancel the deal (at any time and without reason) and take half of his assets? I tell you now, no intelligent successful man would enter into an agreement that is as one sided as the modern marriage contract.

      And please don’t try spewing the usual “don’t be a coward” or “stop whining” or the old “you’ll never get laid with that attitude” or the default insult “you’re a creep”. Women love to use this shaming language when confronted by a man who’s not buying her crap.

      A man who refuses to play in a game that is rigged is not a coward. If the cards are being dealt from the bottom of the pack he should stand up and leave the game.

      Going your own way is often the intelligent, courageous and right thing to do but only men really now this.

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    2. What your neglecting to acknowledge here is that it’s not men that have changed, it’s marriage.

      State sanctioned marriage licensing has been implemented and the legal parameters have changed, yes. Biblical marriage has not changed in the least.

      The feminisation of the family courts and the systematic erosion of a husbands rights, has turned the institution of marriage into a grotesque parody of the true marriages our grandparents enjoyed.

      You fool yourself, true biblical Christian marriage is still being enjoyed today. An anecdote: neither of my grandparents enjoyed their marriages. One set were hopeless drunks and he molested children (she knew and said nothing), the other set - she was a Christian, he was agnostic, they slept in separate bedrooms for the last 30 years of their 50+ year marriage. When he'd get drunk he'd be abusive to her. What they had that is different today was the shame in divorce.

      What businessman would enter into a merger, on the understanding that the other company could cancel the deal (at any time and without reason) and take half of his assets? I tell you now, no intelligent successful man would enter into an agreement that is as one sided as the modern marriage contract.

      Again, this has nothing to do with a Covenant with God. I'm not interested in what secular individuals do, I could care less.

      And please don’t try spewing the usual “don’t be a coward” or “stop whining” or the old “you’ll never get laid with that attitude” or the default insult “you’re a creep”. Women love to use this shaming language when confronted by a man who’s not buying her crap.

      When a man is so concerned about loss of money or feelings that his fear overrides his hearts desire for companionship and availability of sex that is not sin, he is a coward. We have a mighty God. He blesses faith, he can not bless fear. I could care less what of mine you are buying or not. You are voluntarily reading my blog. I could care less if you ever get laid or if you are a creep. If you post creepy, disparaging comments on my blog, I'll call you whatever I damn well please.

      Going your own way is often the intelligent, courageous and right thing to do but only men really now this.

      Yes of course. The evident irony, however, is in the fact that men who are going their own way have a forum where they discuss how they are going their own way. As well as the irony of men going their own way that never miss an opportunity to bemoan the likes of women. Go on your own way...really, go on...get.

      Your message falls on deaf ears here. This is a blog discussing Christian marriage. With the majority of my posts focused on the women coming to understand their nature and advice they can heed to either change their behavior/thinking, or how they can better obey God in biblical submission. This is not the venue for men to proselytize against marriage.

      Civilization minded individuals do not agree that your GYOW is courageous. It is a perfect tool of the enemy and you are his stooges.

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    3. Admirable CrichtonJune 8, 2013 at 1:01 PM

      “State sanctioned marriage licensing has been implemented and the legal parameters have changed, yes. Biblical marriage has not changed in the least“.


      Whether you like it or not we live in a secular society and are bound by it’s laws. Without the backing of the law of the land, marriage in the Biblical sense is no longer available to men.

      Believing your marriage to be a Biblical one will not prevent you being divorced through no fault of your own.

      Believing your marriage to be a Biblical one will not guarantee your conjugal
      rights.

      Believing your marriage to be a Biblical one will not even guarantee you see your own children.

      As a woman you have the luxury of dismissing the feminisation of state marriage, as irrelevant but as logical, intelligent and practical men, we do not.

      “The evident irony, however, is in the fact that men who are going their own way have a forum where they discuss how they are going their own way“.
      What irony? Deciding not to participate in a particular activity does not preclude a person ever discussing the subject.

      “As well as the irony of men going their own way that never miss an opportunity to bemoan the likes of women“.

      The only irony I can see here is that you have called the men you’re attacking, losers, cowards, fools, lazy, immature, stooges and then accuse them of bemoaning women.
      “When a man is so concerned about loss of money or feelings that his fear overrides his hearts desire for companionship and availability of sex that is not sin, he is a coward”.

      It’s not a question of loss of money or feelings. Good, honest, innocent, moral men are, through no fault of their own, having their lives destroyed out there.

      Your message falls on deaf ears here. This is a blog discussing Christian marriage. With the majority of my posts focused on the women coming to understand their nature and advice they can heed to either change their behavior/thinking, or how they can better obey God in biblical submission. This is not the venue for men to proselytize against marriage

      May I suggest that if you genuinely wish to dissuade men, who have chosen to go their own way, from commenting here, you should make the titles of your posts less provocative.

      SD, I do have a degree of sympathy with your point of view and respect you’re motives but without acknowledging the legal and emotional noose men are being asked to ware when marrying today, your position will always lack credibility.

      Entering a lion’s den is only courageous if you know it’s a lion’s den. Otherwise it’s just stupidity.

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    4. My husband, RLB, and I both write here. One can distinguish between posts by looking where it states "posted by."

      It’s not a question of loss of money or feelings. Good, honest, innocent, moral men are, through no fault of their own, having their lives destroyed out there.

      No, you're right it's not a question of it, it is the fact that you continue to repeat. Men lose money and get their feelings hurt, *some* men decide that destroys their lives.

      How am I not acknowledging the legal and emotional noose men are being asked to *risk* (not wear)?
      When I agree with my husband who wrote that men fear loss of money and hurt feelings, that is acknowledging the legal and emotional risk in marriage.

      In no way to I think all men should marry. Please don't misunderstand me. There are several who have commented here that I believe should not marry at all, ever.

      However, I believe that weaker men who live by fear should be challenged in their pleas to other young men (who can be greater men) to not marry. My son is one of those young men. We have had him read all that is written here and on other blogs. Turns out it was moot, he saw the whining and sniveling of weaker men, driven by fear, immediately.

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    5. Really, though, no irony? MGTOW who continue to complain about women? Who spend a good part of their free time doing so. No irony in that?

      Come on.

      My daughter has Celiac disease. She can not eat wheat. She must maintain a strictly gluten free diet. Can you imagine what it would do to her mental health the complain day after day on blogs like this about not being able to eat various foods because the manufacturers use wheat in the ingredients? You would eventually tell her to get over it, wouldn't you?

      We don't let her whine and complain and she's a young woman who can do nothing to change her circumstances.

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    6. Admirable CrichtonJune 8, 2013 at 11:11 PM



      “Men lose money and get their feelings hurt, *some* men decide that destroys their lives.”

      A man that has had his children ripped from his arms, his livelihood shattered and the home that he’s invested all of his adult life to build taken from him, doesn’t decide his life has been destroyed. It has, to any sane, objective person, been decimated.


      “However, I believe that weaker men who live by fear should be challenged in their pleas to other young men (who can be greater men) to not marry.”

      No one is pleading to young men not to get married. All we are doing is giving them the facts and letting them make their own minds up. Indeed, I would have nothing but admiration for a young man who, despite knowing all the dangers, still decided to enter into a modern marriage.

      “y son is one of those young men. We have had him read all that is written here and on other blogs. Turns out it was moot, he saw the whining and sniveling of weaker men, driven by fear, immediately.”


      No one is whining and snivelling in fear. Rather, courageous and righteous men are, at last standing up, despite all the abusive insults and shaming language hurled against them, and stating in one calm and resolute voice that Modern marriage is an evil sham.

      “In no way to I think all men should marry. Please don't misunderstand me. There are several who have commented here that I believe should not marry at all, ever”.

      Indeed, and that can equally go for many women.




      "When a man is so concerned about loss of money or feelings that his fear overrides his hearts desire for companionship and availability of sex that is not sin, he is a coward."

      It may pain your female ego, but men’s hearts desire a great deal more than companionship and the availability of sex. Otherwise Christopher Columbus and countless other great men, would have stayed home with their wives.

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    7. A man that has had his children ripped from his arms, his livelihood shattered and the home that he’s invested all of his adult life to build taken from him, doesn’t decide his life has been destroyed. It has, to any sane, objective person, been decimated.

      Do you know no one who has come back from these circumstances? Another anecdote, I watched my father do just that. In fact I've seen several men (including my husband) avoid these circumstances and successfully change the dynamic of their home to where the risk no longer remains, and I've seen several men overcome the loss and the heartache and build fantastic lives for themselves.

      It's all a matter of where a man will focus his energy, if he only reads and comments on blogs that talk of how it's all destroyed, there is not hope, nothing left etc. He will be overwhelmed with despair. Conversely, if he reads blogs of hope and insight on how to overcome, how to change the dynamics of their home, how to alleviate the risk, he can be empowered.

      I would have nothing but admiration for a young man who, despite knowing all the dangers, still decided to enter into a modern marriage.

      That's good to hear. I appreciate that you are not one of the many I've read around the sphere who actively shame any man who chooses marriage.

      and stating in one calm and resolute voice that Modern marriage is an evil sham.

      Well, not exactly. We have saved several comments by men who have lost their shit. It is men like that who undermine the message more calmer heads would like to discuss. In fact several sound like the rantings of rabid feminists. It gets hard to distinguish them.

      Also, we don't take kindly to having our words twisted. So I caution you with statements like the following:

      It may pain your female ego, but men’s hearts desire a great deal more than companionship and the availability of sex. Otherwise Christopher Columbus and countless other great men, would have stayed home with their wives.

      I was clearly speaking only of the desires of a man's heart that could be found in marriage and said nothing about the whole of his desires. If it is out of frustration that you've chosen to begin sniping at me you might want to move on.

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    8. Admirable CrichtonJune 9, 2013 at 9:21 PM

      “Do you know no one who has come back from these circumstances? Another anecdote, I watched my father do just that. In fact I've seen several men (including my husband) avoid these circumstances and successfully change the dynamic of their home to where the risk no longer remains, and I've seen several men overcome the loss and the heartache and build fantastic lives for themselves.”

      No one is saying that it’s impossible to enjoy a successful marriage today but for every one of your positive anecdotes there are tens of thousands of negative ones. Indeed, if it wasn’t for the horrendous divorce statistics this discussion would be superfluous.

      Although your somewhat motherly, advice is obviously well intended, as a woman, it is far too easy for you to trivialise/ignore the unique risks young men are being asked to undertake when getting married today.

      In fact, by continuing to dismiss the fundamental, anti-male corruption of the modern state marriage. you are doing these young men a huge disservice.

      Surely, a more responsible course of action would be to make sure the hard cold facts of modern marriage, are made crystal clear to these young men. This would at least make one of the most important decision of their lives, an informed one.

      However the heart of the matter here, is that I take profound issue with your assertion that a man choosing to reject modern marriage, is acting out of cowardice.

      Cowardice is an accusation women have used to goad a man into acting against his better judgement since time in memorial. Whether it’s an apple or an unfair marriage, wise men will not allow themselves to be manipulated. (Curiously, accusing a woman of cowardice has no affect what so ever. This is because, in reality, women don’t truly value courage but they know men do.)

      The world we live in today is chronically over populated, the iniquitous changes to family law has resulted in the endemic rise in one parent families and all the pain and heart ache that comes with it (not least to the children).


      Many men believe that this situation is rapidly reaching a critical mass and that if it is allowed to continue unchecked, we risk the complete breakdown of all social cohesion. Some men now believe that only a temporary withdrawal from institutionalised marriage, can wake people up to the danger we are in.

      While you may not agree with this course of action it is a perfectly rational and far from cowardly.

      Delete
    9. No one is saying that it’s impossible to enjoy a successful marriage today

      ummm, that is exactly what they are saying (MGTOW). And the fact remains 50-60% of marriages Do Not end in divorce. There is no way possible that it is one positive anecdote to tens of thousands of negative ones.

      By no means do I trivialize the risks young men face with marriage. I would hardly have my 16 year old son reading game sites along with our blog if I thought he could just go about willy nilly in the world and expect life without challenge.

      I do not dismiss the feminism that exists within state sanctioned marriage. Thus my proclivity to Christian marriage.

      Whether it’s an apple or an unfair marriage, wise men will not allow themselves to be manipulated.

      Did you review that before posting?

      (Curiously, accusing a woman of cowardice has no affect what so ever. This is because, in reality, women don’t truly value courage but they know men do.)

      You really have not read a single post I've written, have you?
      There is nothing curious about this. Courage is not an innate female trait. Nor is honor or empathy.

      The world we live in today is chronically over populated

      Oh dear child, you jest.
      Admirable Chrichton, meet Vox Day

      I do not agree that it is rational. I believe it is reactionary and contrary to team civilization (I find it on par with feminism). Thus I find it cowardly. It's okay to disagree with me, dear.

      Delete
    10. Having read this: http://www.returnofkings.com/7877/the-mens-rights-movement-is-no-place-for-men I'm having a hard time distinguishing the MRA's from the MGTOWs who have been commenting here.

      I'm hearing a whole bunch of MRA talking points here.

      Delete
    11. Admirable CrichtonJune 10, 2013 at 11:43 AM

      “the fact remains 50-60% of marriages Do Not end in divorce.”


      The fact that around 50% of modern marriages are doomed to end in divorce is shocking but unfortunately it is only part of the story. This figure is set to continue to rise over the coming decades. Furthermore not all failed marriages end with an official divorce many end in estrangement or just limp on with the husband effectively cuckold by the state.

      “There is no way possible that it is one positive anecdote to tens of thousands of negative ones.”

      By positive anecdote, I’m referring to men that have been dragged through the iniquities, of the family court system and found the experience to have had a positive effect on their lives as a whole. You are welcome to challenge the ratio I suggest by putting forward one of your own.

      “What of the parable of the talents?”

      The parable of the talents is indeed a great one. It’s core message is that men should always use the gifts they have been blessed with, wisely.

      However the parable only makes sense because the laws of the land in which is set, allows a man to benefit from his endeavours.

      Imagine how different this parable would read if it was set in a land, that while the master was way, became ruled over by an evil, greedy tyrant, who has introduced a 150% tax on every mans earnings while raiding every bank in the land, in order to fund his debauched lifestyle.

      In this land, the servant who hid his talent would have acted the most wisely. For all the others would have lost 50% of their masters investment.

      As we have seen over the past few years, when a market place becomes corrupted, it’s often the ones who loses the least that survive.

      Many men believe that modern marriage has now been corrupted to such a degree, that they are choosing to leave the market place altogether.

      You will never hear from the vast majority of this men and I doubt that many of them have ever herd of MGTOW or MRA. These men are not acting as a part of a huge organised movement, they are just adjusting to the new circumstances in which they find themselves.

      Unlike women, men do not have the luxury of viewing the world in an emotional, romantic or fanciful way. Men’s nature dictates that they deal with life’s dilemmas, intellectually, realistically and above all practically.


      “I'm having a hard time distinguishing the MRA's from the MGTOWs who have been commenting here. I'm hearing a whole bunch of MRA talking points here.”

      If you sincerely desire to understand the reasons behind men deserting marriage as well as many other aspects of society, you will find all the answers in the extremely insightful book by Helen smith called Men on Strike.

      Delete
    12. My speaking of the Parable of the Talents was in response to someone who believes if God desired him to be married, a virtuous, virginal woman will be dropped in his lap as a gift from God. This is complete foolishness.

      God wants us to grow, to change, to be challenged, to risk, to seek, to grow in wisdom, to take all that his is given us and multiply it. Not for our own benefit but as witnesses to Him.

      Even in the face of death we are to expand His kingdom. Even when we have tyrannical rulers.

      You have a very 1st world perspective.

      It spits in the faces of the men and women who, as Christians, marry and share the Gospel in places where all the laws and institutions are corrupted - where they face death - not just hurt feelings or a loss of money, like N.Korea, for example.

      Delete
    13. Admirable CrichtonJune 11, 2013 at 10:30 AM

      “My speaking of the Parable of the Talents was in response to someone who believes if God desired him to be married, a virtuous, virginal woman will be dropped in his lap as a gift from God.”

      Indeed, and my speaking of it was in response to you constantly dismissing the fact, that today’s grotesquely ant-male family legal system, has a legitimate bearing on whether a man should or should not choose to marry.



      “God wants us to grow, to change, to be challenged, to risk, to seek, to grow in wisdom, to take all that his is given us and multiply it. Not for our own benefit but as witnesses to Him.”

      Agreed. But this does not oblige him to marry. There is no “thy shall not stay single” Commandment.

      “Even in the face of death we are to expand His kingdom. Even when we have tyrannical rulers.”

      Is there really no change to the law that would make you change your views on modern marriage?

      Are you really saying, that if a law was introduced tomorrow that ordered all married men to have their eyes plucked out, you would still advice your son to get married?

      And even more relevantly, would you still consider a man refusing to marry under these circumstances, a coward?

      “You have a very 1st world perspective.”

      That’s because MGTOW is a 1st world phenomenon.

      It spits in the faces of the men and women who, as Christians, marry and share the Gospel in places where all the laws and institutions are corrupted - where they face death - not just hurt feelings or a loss of money, like N.Korea, for example.”

      No it does not. The men and women of whom you speak are courageous, modern day martyrs, who deserve our support and admiration. Our duty however, is to do all we possibly can to put pressure on these places, to reform their corrupt laws and institutions.

      MGTOW would have little or no effect in these places but in the our society it may very well be the wake up call that’s needed.

      Delete
    14. The only wake up call happening is in a secular area. Christian men cannot justify such a path without being Paul. That doesn't mean it isn't a wake up call. It just isn't the right one for Christian men to rally around.

      Delete
    15. Admirable CrichtonJune 12, 2013 at 5:58 PM

      "The only wake up call happening is in a secular area."

      Scroll up to (June 8 ,2013 at 1:01 PM) and you'll see point has been covered.

      "Christian men cannot justify such a path without being Paul."

      The world becomes a very dangerous place when Scripture is interpreted too literally. G. K. Chesterton.

      The institution of marriage has been under sustained attack from pernicious anti-male legislation for over 40 years. Figures released this week, show that the number of one parent, fatherless families in the UK has risen to 1 in 4.

      If this trend is allowed to continue unchallenged, we are probably witnessing the end of the traditional family unit altogether. The ramifications of this will be catastrophic for society as a whole.

      SD seems to think that this is not her problem, as she is only interested in what Christian men do (which is nothing) and in the process forgets the greatest of all the Commandments.

      The hottest place in hell is reserved for those, who in times of crisis, remain neutral. Dante

      Delete
    16. SD seems to think that this is not her problem, as she is only interested in what Christian men do (which is nothing) and in the process forgets the greatest of all the Commandments.

      You know nothing of what I think nor what I am interested in. You evidently have not taken the time to read anything that I've written. This has become absurd. I've cautioned you once about twisting words, include making assumptions along with that. Don't do it again or your comments will be deleted.

      Delete
    17. AC, you have done no addressing of the issues from a biblical standard. You continue to whine about hurt feelings and money. It's the same as we have heard before. When confronted with scripture you use quotes from people that also wanted scripture not to be true. If that is the path you desire to follow, by all means, go on your merry way.

      My family's rudder is firmly placed on scriptural truth. Whatever relativistic platform you want to follow is to your own detriment. Twisting meanings is definitely the place of the serpent. Surely you won't die. I have very little interest in your societal studies and renderings. Christianity has survived many forms of government and many types of society. It won't go away and any new age interpretation of the scriptures has to be able to stand the test of time.

      It is quite easy to see the dead end of MGTOW mentality. It can at most last a generation. Genetic dead ends are simple things to observe and discard.

      If you twist our words again, you will not comment here again.

      Delete
    18. Admirable CrichtonJune 13, 2013 at 10:09 AM

      I have discharged my mind fully and in good conscience on this subject and I stand by all I have written.

      As far as I am concerned there is nothing more to add except to wish you both good luck and goodbye

      Delete
  16. Sarah, your article makes many good points. There are men who are like you mention in the article. However if a Christian man has all these qualities and wants to get married young. There is pressure on women to go to college get a career(where many "Christian" girls get more rides than a NYC taxicab),then they complain there are no good men. There are even pastors who want men to marry single mothers and carousel riders, and sometimes discourage early marriage.

    I can see why Jesus said we will all be no marriages in Heaven.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Thank you Anon, though I didn't write it, RLB did.

    I think men sometimes underestimate what they are learning about female nature. Though women go to college to get their careers, many are easily sidetracked when an option they were never told about comes along. For example, I was in college but only because that was the path I was supposed to take. I was very willing to become a wife and then stay at home mom when the option was presented to me from RLB.

    Women vacillate all the time on what they really want. Truth is, most don't have a clue. They can often be nudged in the right direction should someone choose to lead them that way.

    Except of course for hard core feminists. Most of those don't even look like women though and are hardly something a Christian man would be attracted to.

    ReplyDelete
  18. SarahsDaughter

    "How many MGTOWs threaten to go to another country and marry?"

    Oh, well, six hundred and sixty-six, of course.

    donalgraeme

    "Our character, our attitude, our Frame determines our attractiveness; whereas women are stuck with pure physical features."

    Yes indeed, most women are excruciatingly BORING, at best.

    SarahsDaughter

    "I've read such vastly different definitions of what MGTOW is it has, to me, become the grown man's version of forever thinking like an adolescent. "I'm cleaning my room, not because you told me to, mom, but because I want to."

    Naturally it has, because it's a way of calling independent, grown men, "immature". And all because independent, freedom-valuing men are not acting how you think they should; accordingly to your ideals. Few people enjoy existing as a slave, SD. They tend to do the opposite of what the tyrant wants, or nothing, or the least, at every chance. The above quote is an example of a more direct, admirable, masculine approach to freedom.

    I once read on a very popular woman-forum, a woman complaining about how her son or daughter used to be a complete slob, and how now this person, after gaining freedom (or after, "moving-out", if you wish) instantly became a clean freak. Much to her hysterical-displeasure.

    The women were sympathetic, yet clueless.

    ReplyDelete
  19. It is an immature perspective (what was the need for scare quotes there?). Wise individuals submit. Christians are commanded to submit and obey. Not to a woman or to a societal ideal, Christians are to submit to the Lord.

    What you have stated is no different than the feminist mantra in rebellion of the Western societal norms for women. I don't respect feminists...

    Also, Anon (why anon?) if women are excruciatingly boring and you are indeed a MGTOW, is it safe to assume you don't spend time whining about women. Are men not boring to you? With whom do you have sex or companionship?

    ReplyDelete
  20. stg58/Animal MotherApril 27, 2013 at 4:24 PM

    There are good women out there, I don't care where you are. I found my wife on match.com. Men have to go find them, they aren't going to come to you. We have it easy.We can improve almost every facet of our being, and what we can't change doesn't matter. Your success is completely up to you, if you serve The Lord.

    In other words, as Arnold says, "Quit whining! "

    ReplyDelete
  21. SD:

    Are you saying the desire for freedom is immature? No idea what you are referring to as scare quotes.

    "Wise individuals submit. Christians are commanded to submit and obey. Not to a woman or to a societal ideal, Christians are to submit to the Lord."

    What's your definition of wisdom? Why is submissive behavior wise?

    "Also, Anon (why anon?) if women are excruciatingly boring and you are indeed a MGTOW, is it safe to assume you don't spend time whining about women. Are men not boring to you? With whom do you have sex or companionship?"

    Because I most certainly wouldn't want to venture out and dominate with a different name. Something unwise about that, dunno.

    How do you define "whining"?

    Yes yes some men are boring to me, *yawn*.

    Why would you ask this?

    ReplyDelete
  22. Replies
    1. Actually, he's just pointing out some of the holes in your assertions and statements.

      "Wise individuals submit."
      Actually, according to RLB, they do not. They lead and act irrationally over-confident.
      In Scripture, there are many cases in the Old and New Testament where individuals did not immediately submit to God, but rather bargained with Him.

      See, you are coming up with these wild ideas and concepts that have no Biblical backing. Then when you can't defend them, you attack the emotions or motives of the people pointing out the holes in them.

      Delete
  23. Actually, according to RLB, they do not. They lead and act irrationally over-confident.

    Again you put words into his mouth. Are you so dense as to not get what everything of this blog has been about? It's very sad that I've had to come to this point with you. You must know that a wife's spiritual authority is her husband, right? RLB's submission to God and his obedience to His commands is why, after 18 years we are still married and I have come to obedience to God's commands myself. Our marriage is a testimony to the Truth of what is spoken of in the Bible.

    You've worn out your welcome here. Twice you have interjected baseless assertions of what my husband has said. You know nothing of the man he is. You know nothing of his submission to God.

    Fruit on the tree, AR, that is how one is judged. Your tree is barren. RLB had more fruit on his tree 20 years ago than you do today, and you are only 12 years younger than him.

    You are the epitome of what he has spoken of with regards to MGTOWs.

    I wish you the best, AR, really I do. However you have proven yourself indignant and horribly arrogant.

    I appreciate your respectful exit from our blog.

    ReplyDelete
  24. RLB:

    You're only mostly right here in asserting MGTOWs are losers. Again, I still think you're painting with too broad a brush.

    Something I think you're missing is that there are a lot of Christian men (churchian men?) who did all the things they were told to do. They got jobs, got educations, developed themselves as providers, kept themselves fit. But they didn't develop adaptive, aggressive, assertive, dominant personalities which would be attractive to women.

    Even those men who did all the right things: develop assertive dominant personalities and raise their status -- were dropped into environments in which the available women rejected them. These were men who wanted marriage. These were men who wanted to obey and satisfy their sexual desires through marriage -- the only biblically sanctioned way to do so.

    So they were given essentially choices in which they either (1) married physically unattractive, unappealing women; (2) married former carousel riders who aren't attracted to them; or (3) didn't marry. The men in categories (1) and (2) often find themselves in sexless marriages or divorced.

    And so many men, including Christian men, are making the cost-benefit analysis, and thus concluding the possible benefit (marriage to a carousel rider and the attendant difficulties) outweights the costs. True, once a man makes that conclusion he shouldn't be bitching and whining and complaining because it's beta. But is this really whining and complaining, or is it sounding an alarm, a warning?

    I think you're missing a few things here, and that's what flaws your analysis, and explains the pushback you're getting on these posts.

    deti

    ReplyDelete
  25. I don't you grasp MGTOW at all. Those guys just want to live how they want without having to do what others expect. That is the only way to live in my book. I'd rather live for myself and be happy than cave to what others want for their benefit.

    ReplyDelete
  26. "If only they had the money. Guess what. Having the money would be one of those qualities that makes you marriageable in the first place."

    And in your rush to shame us, you fatally tip your hand & reveal your true, money-grubbing, hypergamous nature!

    FAIL.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon and other MGTOW forum visitors, my husband wrote this. Look at "posted by" at the bottom of the post. Now do carry on with your whining ON YOUR SITE. I'm done dealing with you here.

      Delete
  27. Lol. The cakeater gets her butt handed to her and instead of defending her or her husband's comments, she simply says "I didn't write it!"....

    ....While her hamster wheel goes round and round

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You have done no such butt handing. MGTOWs whine about money and hurt feelings. It's well established. Pick a name. Try this for some understanding of why real men laugh at you.

      Why you don't have a wife or girlfriend.

      Delete
  28. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Pick a name and try again. I also suggest you read more here and at AG before embarrassing yourself. Honestly, I protect you guys from yourselves. I don't want your rantings to come off as feminist cat ladies. You are close to the Truth. You just aren't there yet.

      Delete
  29. "The characteristics of high value marriageable men are Christian attributes. Leadership, confidence, provision, success, masculinity, bravery, and fitness"

    What??? The characteristics of a christian are humility, meekness and kindness (being slow to defend yourself or take offence), chastity (being generally unisexual), poverty (being unconcerned with money), temperance (not "splashing out" on stuff, especially buying stuff) - all of which are woman repellent.

    Your inclusion of "success", which pretty much by definition means worldly success, is utterly telling, completely unchristian. You are completely concerned with this world, not the next. You do not have a biblical world-view at all, you merely either dress up your worldly views in christian language, or don't even bother and blithely assert that the bible contains stuff that it simply doesn't.

    And fitness? You simply have no idea whatever about what St Paul actually says about the body.

    You're a phoney christian, and will spend a lost eternity in hell with the other hypocrites.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Quit being a pussy. I'm well on my way to heaven. You might be too, but you don't seem to want to enjoy rewards here on earth. That is your decision. It's a fruit on the tree thing. You also represent people that condemn others without looking within. Try growing a pair and be a real man. Men have wives and daughters that are submissive. MGTOWs whine about hurt feelings and money. I'm the one saying you shouldn't worry about money. You need to do what God told you to do...lead.

      You are no Paul. Paul didn't whine about the unfairness of life. He tackled life on earth head on. You whine like a mule. Be gone Satan.

      Delete
  30. the mask comes off.

    take a good look, men. this is the vile monster you must deal with forever, until you go your own way. this is the woman who claims to be "on the side of men."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dude, wake up. I wrote it. I am a man. You are a mangina.

      Delete
  31. Once you get banned for not answering questions, you don't get to come back and post anonymously. Pick a name if you are new. If you are the trolls I have banned, feel free to drop me an email and explain why I should let you post again.

    ReplyDelete
  32. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Admirable CrichtonJune 7, 2013 at 5:22 PM

    “The characteristics of high value marriageable men are Christian attributes. Leadership, confidence, provision, success, masculinity, bravery, and fitness are all controllable attributes for a Christian man“.

    They also happen to be the very same characteristics a Man needs to display in order to become a successful PUA.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So? What does that have to do with anything?
      A man's morality determines what he will use his treasure and talent for.

      Delete
  34. I am a christian and all I am going to say is that although I have no way of proving this to you, I am not a loser in any way, shape or form. I go my own way and completely renounce marriage and it is not anti- christian to do so- The greatest men in biblical history were single and celibate- John, Paul and ....Jesus.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'll agree you are not a loser unless:
      - you spend your time commenting on blogs with the only focus being to complain about women in a manner that sounds as though you can't have something you want because women are the problem. (If you've gone your own way and denounced marriage, there is no need for you to continue this type of complaining).
      - you do not shame men who choose marriage despite the risks because of their commitment to Western Civilization.
      - you do not spend your time trying to convince married men that no matter the commands of God their wife obeys (biblical submission), it's just a matter of time, a ticking time bomb, and she will turn away from God.
      - you do not proselytize against marriage to men who clearly burn for women and will succumb to sin without marriage.

      Also, I'm uncomfortable with you including Jesus in your list. I won't get into it with you, perhaps a man who feels the same as I do will.

      Delete
  35. "I'll agree you are not a loser unless:
    - you spend your time commenting on blogs with the only focus being to complain about women in a manner that SOUNDS as though you can't have something you want because women are the problem."
    What something sounds to you has nothing to do with reality. He may sounds like he can't, and still can do it. IT is only your subjective judgment. Plus as a man going celibate I hear this too often. When women cannot accept that that I dont pursue it, they always going "You cant get anyway creep"

    "(If you've gone your own way and denounced marriage, there is no need for you to continue this type of complaining)."
    This have no biblical and no secular justification. If you don't seek women then you cant complain about what standard they have. Men share observation and discuss. Ah I know, men are not allow to talk bad about women. Thank that you allow us to go away, dont play God.

    "- you do not shame men who choose marriage despite the risks because of their commitment to Western Civilization."
    Only you engage shaming, telling truth is not a sin. His chances are slim that is the truth.

    "- you do not spend your time trying to convince married men that no matter the commands of God their wife obeys (biblical submission), it's just a matter of time, a ticking time bomb, and she will turn away from God."
    But she could turn that way if she want, we are allowed to tell him truth.

    "- you do not proselytize against marriage to men who clearly burn for women and will succumb to sin without marriage."
    If man was once in marriage biblically he cannot marry again. What to do with meical aspect of lack of any release? I mean no masturbation. I going with no sex myself,but I don't want to have problems down there.

    Also non of this things have ANY impact of his well being. He is only loser when he say things that don't support women. It boils down that you must serve women cause. I can hardly see such sacrifice and going against that odds is biblical. You dont try to fix Sodoma you have to leave it. You don't care of physical and emotional suffering of men, you have no love. You love only utility in us. We are not losing leaving you, you are no prize to win, loveless. Faith without love, worthless being are not prize.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My opinion of what constitutes a loser or not is just that, my opinion. Of course it's subjective. I'm not playing God, I'm telling you my opinion, on my own blog. I do not allow my comment section on other posts to devolve into a MGTOW whine festival or even a MGTOW discussion, that has always been the point. This blog, a blog devoted to primarily to Christian marriage will not be a venue for such things. As well, I do not go to MGTOW blogs and comment on whether I perceive them to be losers or not.

      Also non of this things have ANY impact of his well being. He is only loser when he say things that don't support women. It boils down that you must serve women cause. I can hardly see such sacrifice and going against that odds is biblical. You dont try to fix Sodoma you have to leave it. You don't care of physical and emotional suffering of men, you have no love. You love only utility in us. We are not losing leaving you, you are no prize to win, loveless. Faith without love, worthless being are not prize.

      I care about Western Civilization. MGTOW is not conducive to it. Feminism is not conducive to it, nor is MRA.

      If you care to reply, you will not use personal insults or your comments will be deleted. You certainly have done nothing to change my perspective of MGTOWs.

      Delete
  36. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulverism

    I posted this because all the counter arguments don't deal with rights, outcomes, or expectations.

    They also do not deal with how women wish to marry up in their socio-economic ladders. (Husband who provides=more money/success than they could obtain alone/themselves.) You end up with women who can't marry up and men who can't marry down.You have all classes of women and men A-F. a B woman marries the A man, who will the A woman marry? Woman may not as easily marry down if they value childbearing since they will need to be supported. (and should be) Men more often try to marry across the socio-economic spectrum even if this includes things as shallow as looks.(Men=>Up, down, or sideways in status.)

    This scenario results in A women and F men being the losers who are single. A women are told 'why succeed' and ask themselves if their career was worth it. (It should be worth it!!!) F 'status' men are like... (Divorcees, nerds, passives, feminine.) The system is rigged by women. I'll go outside it. -> MGTOW
    I do think women are more and more likely to marry people in their same class as society changes. We are caught in between.

    Next, maybe there is a reason men have hurt feelings. I thought it takes empathy (a 'womanly' trait) to discover and relate to it. You have that empathy right? Perhaps these MGTOW have gone to marriage counseling or heard tons of media messages on it. They have been told that 'men don't communicate their feelings.' Now they are... And they're being told to stop. Hmmm. It seems counterproductive.

    There are a lot of problems that don't have an easy answer. How men and women relate is one of those.

    I see most of the problems arising from the difficult economic times that are keeping 'young' men down and out. (More than women) I see problems with men not pursuing education. Or men becoming educated but having no real job/career prospects in a slow economey. Perhaps young men need affirmative action soon.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So I think there is an important question one must ask that isn't being asked by single people...What do you value in others? And does this arise from an insecurity?

      God intended two only whole people to marry.

      Delete
  37. empathy (a 'womanly' trait)

    This concept has been debunked. Empathy is not something that comes naturally to women. Solipsism is.

    Perhaps these MGTOW have gone to marriage counseling or heard tons of media messages on it. They have been told that 'men don't communicate their feelings.' Now they are... And they're being told to stop. Hmmm. It seems counterproductive.

    Yes, they have been told lies. Telling a woman his feelings will not help her be attracted to him. It's effeminate. There are many blogs that address this, look to the right at those we list. Feminists nor MGTOWs/MRAs will ever change how women actually respond to men. Effeminate men repulse women because at her core she knows she is weak - a masculine man provides protection. She innately knows she needs this.

    ReplyDelete
  38. To the Anon who last commented, choose a name and I'll put your comment back. Secondly, all of the statements you've quoted were written by a man, you may want to adjust what you have to say based on that.

    ReplyDelete
  39. "The problem with Christian MGTOWs is that they are not attractive to women."

    That is the point of MGTOW for many.

    ReplyDelete
  40. You sound very bitter.

    ReplyDelete
  41. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  42. "MGTOWs whine about money and hurt feelings".

    Women and White Knights have always been shaming men and making light of their suffering for eons.

    Thing is though, what you progressive "Christians" fail to realise is that according to your very doctrine (dogma?) we're living in the last days. The debauchery and consequent breakdown of families can be likened to Sodom and Gomorrah:-

    "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all." -Luke 17:28,29

    MGTOWs are a group of (usually) highly intelligent men, who quite simply see the writing on the wall. We've realised that the game is nearly over, regardless of our many and varied convictions - it's time to eat, drink and be merry.

    To Hell with your world.

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    1. MGTOWs are losers. They always have been. They have been around since the dawn of time. They are the Prodigal Son's brother. They suck at living life. They hate that others do what they wish they had the guts to do.

      Intelligence only boxes them in. They have a fear of making mistakes that they should have seen. Thus they live a life of inaction and their lives are pathetic as a result. They risk nothing; they gain nothing. This is not a new phenomenon. Lot, himself, was a risk taker. Interesting that you would mention him.

      He went to the city, definitely not the safe path for his kind. Despite his risk taking, God looked out for him. There might be a lesson there.

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  43. Most MGTOW or red-pill or whatever variant you call it are men that were married and have had an awakening caused by the pain and suffering that they have endured and continue to endure at the hands of women and the court systems. They know women are not all "sugar and spice" which is what our culture tries to portray women as.

    The majority of women today are not marriage material and there are very serious problems in the female population with entitlement, narcissism and personality disorders. Everywhere you look and read in the media there are women talking about being unhappy. You can often read or hear on TV " My man isn't doing this and my man isn't doing that. There are articles in women's magazines all the time about adding spark to a marriage. The popular "sex in the city" glorifying self centered narcissistic women.

    It's not a mans job to make a woman happy yet women think it is and that they are entitled to it. They blame men for something that is inherently wrong in their own psyche, thinking and mindset.


    Men are seeing things at a younger age than previous generations due to the prevalence in culture today. With 70% of women filing to divorce their husband, fleecing the fathers of just about everything they have worked for, and using the kids as weapons while moving a new "dick" into the kids lives every year or two...why in the world would a young man even entertain the idea of marriage.

    with 70% of women divorcing men, they are at the helm of destruction of the family unit and society in general. They are driving the bus right into hell.....

    Men today should just hire a surrogate mother with an iron clad legal agreement if they want children.

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  44. They know women are not all "sugar and spice" which is what our culture tries to portray women as.

    Hardly, if you've been paying attention, feminism rejects this notion of women being sugar and spice. I think the media has been quite clear on how crude and repulsive women unleashed are. Get them off the flippin' pedestal and you'll get over the shock you're in, men have known through the ages that women are not sugar and spice, but you'd have had to read some great philosophers' works to know that.

    why in the world would a young man even entertain the idea of marriage.

    Because he's a Christian who knows he is unlike Paul and that he burns (wants to have sex that isn't sin) and doesn't live in fear.

    Men today should just hire a surrogate mother with an iron clad legal agreement if they want children.

    And this is different than woman approaching the wall, purchasing sperm and having babies without men...how?

    MGTOW - the fear driven man's response to feminism. Good for you.

    Parable of the talents...Nah, God had NO IDEA what the situation would be today...

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  45. MGTOW Has nothing to do with fear of feminism. When the christian unlike paul and his wife divorces said man he will be having sex in sin too or have to be celibate. If he masturbates, he will be committing sin in lust also.

    The worldly definition of lucifer would be a narcissist. Therapists today are realizing the epidemic that is revealing itself in the female population with BPD and narcissism. Hence the fact that 70% of all divorces are women filing.

    It is a fact that men are being abused by women and the court system in greater and greater numbers. The have a golden uterus complex and its all coming to an end as gods original plan for man was changed when eve ate of the forbidden fruit.

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  46. MGTOW Has nothing to do with fear of feminism.

    The sentence that followed this had nothing to do with this sentence.

    I didn't state it was a fear of feminism. From the get go our observance has been that the MGTOW movement is a fear of a.) loss of money and b.) fear of hurt feelings.

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  47. I will spell it out for you. It is about self preservation.

    MGTOW is about men whom have been abused by women. Abused emotionally, Abused psychologically, Abused financially and are no longer drinking the kool-aide.

    You keep talking about PAUL.... Here is the truth about marriage today.
    When the christian unlike paul takes a wife and his wife divorces him, he will be having sex in sin unless he is celibate.

    Il say it again, 70% of all divorces are filed by Women.

    Gods original plan for man was changed when eve ate of the forbidden fruit.

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  48. Where can I get a blowjob around here?

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  49. Why are the owners of this blog so concerned with MGTOW? So a few men decide to stop playing the game and are done with pandering to old spinsters, divorcées and single moms who are so picky that they will never find anyone. The MGTOW movement represents such a small fraction of the male population anyways (at least in the West - I know in Japan the same can't be said). Why is this such a big deal? Because your precious Western civilization might be undermined if it catches on and men choose to flee broken relationships and opt out on mass? Here's a newsflash for you. The damage is already done. It started decades ago with the introduction of no fault divorce, Feminism and the mass rejection of God by Western culture. Traditional marriage will never be what it was in the good old days (the 1950's). Tragically, along with the death of marriage has come the death of the family. Without the family, civilization can't exist since it is the basic building block. It's really sad when generations of children are being raised without even the slightest idea of what God intended a normal family to look like. A series of events (rampant divorce, epidemic fatherlessness and self centeredness) has been started that cannot be reversed. It is the natural conclusion to our sin and our rejection of God. From James 1:14-15, "14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death." That desire being our sinful nature which has betrayed us into this broken and depraved culture we now call Western civilization. Perhaps you are too stubborn to see this. Instead you'd rather shame MGTOW and place blame squarely on them.

    If these guys want to go their own way, let them go - God is their judge, not you. Let God deal with them. From Matthew 7:5, "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye". It's like you are personally threatened by a man's choice to opt out. This is clearly evidenced in your posts defending traditional marriage. They are "dripping" with just as much disdain as you claim the MGTOW posts are. I love how Christlike you are towards the MGTOW's, not to mention the cuss words that were used in the original post, which I don't care to re-iterate here. This hypocrisy is unbelievable yet sadly typical of Western Churchianity. No wonder the church has become such an abject failure in the West. I would be embarrassed to call myself a Christian, calling you my fellow brothers and sisters knowing that you are spouting this sort of graceless, hard hearted rhetoric.

    Like Feminism, MGTOW is merely a symptom of the breakdown of relations between men and women due to our rebellious, sinful and God rejecting culture. MGTOW exists within the church because our Christian culture is not much different then that of the world's. You can't blame it on MGTOW - women are just as responsible. What do you get when you put two sinful and broken people together? The answer is simple - you get more sin and more problems. In this seriously broken and godless culture, MGTOW is probably a much simpler choice; you only need to worry about your own sin and relationship with God, not someone else's.

    All I can say is let every man settle his accounts with the Lord, and let everyone repent and work out their salvation with fear and trembling, for the day of the Lord is near.

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    1. Why are the owners of this blog so concerned with MGTOW?

      The post you are commenting on was written 14 months ago, idiot.

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  50. Men "enjoy whining about the failings of women, but ignore their own failings."

    I'm sure that's true for a lot of men. In all honesty, I probably don't always acknowledge my problems either. But don't pretend that women don't do the exact same thing.

    Women claim to be strong and independent, yet women (and society in general for that matter) are always insinuating that it is up to men to solve their problems for them. Then women try to shame men into "manning up" and being their pawns when men don't meet their expectations.

    I'm not saying that all women are the cause of their own problems, but a lot of them are. Yet, for some reason, society doesn't expect said women to take responsibility for their own actions.

    Say a woman is being a bitch and picking a fight with a man. If the man doesn't fight back, then everyone who sees it is like "ha ha, you got beat up by a girl. But the second the man even lays a finger on the woman to defend himself (because not all women are delicate little flowers incapable of doing harm, believe it or not), a platoon of angry manginas will immediately deploy and save the damsel in "distress."

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  51. But don't pretend that women don't do the exact same thing.

    Show me where this happened. Where has it been pretended that women don't do the exact same thing.

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  52. As far as "Where has it been pretended that women don't do the exact same thing" is concerned, I'd say that happened right here in your article. You called men out for being overly-critical of women, but you didn't even acknowledge the possibility that some women are the same way towards men. Although, to be fair, maybe you have written a separate article on that and I just haven't seen it?

    "Show me where this happened."

    One does not have to look very diligently to see women (and society in general) pointing out to men their failures and shortcomings. I have seen article after article online that challenges men to be more (fill in the blank); manly, chivalrous, traditional, bold and aggressive about protecting women, being a better husband, telling their SOs they love them more often, being a stronger spiritual leader, hard working to be a provider. Don't get me wrong, those are all good things for a man to be. But there are a scarce amount of articles that point out the good qualities a woman should have.

    You will also see dozens of articles that offer a word of encouragement or guidance for women; things like "Men you should not marry," "when God doesn't give you a spouse," or "When your Husband doesn't...." But there are not quite as many such articles for men.

    There was one article by Matt Walsh called "Your Husband Doesn't Have to Earn Your Respect." Even though Matt had previously written a separate article that similarly addressed men, some lady couldn't help but to get on there and comment something to the effect of "yeah, but respect should work both ways." And it should. But as somebody pointed out to her, she defeated the whole point of the article, as there were already plenty of others that examine men's side of the coin. I understand that not all women are like that, but I still think that this example illustrates how some women are geared towards putting men's character under the microscope, but not their own.


    This isn't entirely related to my point. But if you don't mind, I recommend that you watch a youtube video called "MGTOW and Christianity" by David McMurdo.



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    1. Even though Matt had previously written a separate article that similarly addressed men, some lady couldn't help but to get on there and comment something to the effect of "yeah, but respect should work both ways."

      And yet here you are saying virtually the very same thing on this post which was written by my husband.

      Although, to be fair, maybe you have written a separate article on that and I just haven't seen it?

      A separate article? How about the majority of my blog which you've clearly not read at all and haven't a clue what you are talking about.


      "yeah, but respect should work both ways." And it should.

      No, respect does not work both ways. There is nothing biblical about a man having to earn respect from a woman, it is to be given to him should the woman desire to be obedient to God. Further God does not call men to respect their wives, he calls them to love their wives.

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  53. (Sorry about that. I had to go back and fix something I believe wasn't specific enough)

    Original comment:

    "No, respect does not work both ways. There is nothing biblical about a man having to earn respect from a woman, it is to be given to him should the woman desire to be obedient to God. Further God does not call men to respect their wives, he calls them to love their wives."

    Good point. If that's what the Bible says, then I'll do my best to take it to heart.


    "A separate article? How about the majority of my blog which you've clearly not read at all and haven't a clue what you are talking about."

    I meant you didn't address that in this article. But then, I realized you may have done so elsewhere and was simply asking if you had. I should have been a little more specific.


    "And yet here you are saying virtually the very same thing on this post which was written by my husband."

    As I did not specifically say anything in my original comment that is similar to what the woman on the Matt Walsh blog said, I assume you mean that I'm behaving in the same manner in which she did by turning the topic of the article around on the opposite sex. I'm glad you caught that, and I apologize for that.

    I guess the reason I responded thusly was resentment towards your automatic assumption that all men who complain about the poor quality of women today don't primarily (or at least equally) concern themselves with their own character. I admit that sometimes I complain about women. But, I understand that there are still some good women out there, and I'm trying to trust God to help me to strengthen my own character while I wait for Him to bring a good woman into my life so that I can care for her as best as possible, and to be an overall better, more faithful servant of Christ even if He doesn't.

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  54. If you have commented here and your comment has been removed, consider yourself banned from commenting here. The latest is, Caribdus Apollion. You do not have permission to comment on this blog.

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  55. Caribdus Apollion,
    Your visits to this blog have been logged and so have your emails. Should you attempt contact with me again, all information will be turned over to relevant law enforcement in Woodbridge Virginia. Here's is your state's law concerning this matter:

    § 18.2-152.7:1. Harassment by computer; penalty.

    If any person, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, or harass any person, shall use a computer or computer network to communicate obscene, vulgar, profane, lewd, lascivious, or indecent language, or make any suggestion or proposal of an obscene nature, or threaten any illegal or immoral act, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    (2000, c. 849.)

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