In which he quotes Daniel Callahan, of The Hastings Center a New York think-tank specializing in health policy ethics:
A leading health academic has called for fat people to be ‘shamed and beat upon socially’ in order to halt the obesity crisis.
In a controversial article, Daniel Callahan, the 82-year-old president emeritus of The Hastings Center a New York think-tank specializing in health policy ethics, calls for increased stigmatization of obese people to try spur weight-loss across America.
The senior research scholar says fat people should be treated like smokers who have become increasingly demonized in recent years and thus ‘nudged’ by negative attitudes of those around them into giving up the unhealthy habit. [...]
‘The obvious target would be the large number of people who are unaware that they are overweight,’ he writes in the paper printed in the center’s first periodical volume of the year.
‘They need, to use an old phrase, a shock of recognition. Only a carefully calibrated effort of public social pressure is likely to awaken them to the reality of their condition.
I usually have an "ehhh, do I really want to read this?" approach to Roissy, but must admit, I loved and very much needed this post of his.
Shaming works. If it worked on smokers and “”"racists”"”, it will work on fatties. Shaming isn’t the sole solution to the obesity epidemic, but it is a powerful weapon against the marching manatees. Shaming fat women to lose weight will bring increased happiness to the world, and that’s a utilitarian argument men can spring to life for!
The shaming stick coupled with the encouragement carrot is a potent combo. Be genuinely helpful and complimentary to women who are sincerely making efforts to lose weight. Remind her, in nuanced language as necessary, that a reward of feeling better about herself and having a more exciting (read: more pleasurably orgasmic) dating life await her on the other side where thin women take their desirability for granted. But the carrot should always follow the stick, like you might give a dog a treat only after it has done what you commanded of it. Too little shame, and the carrot becomes an excuse to avoid the hard choices, or to delude oneself that no improvement is needed.
For those of you who won't venture over to his place to read his full essay, here are seven lessons from him, being a self described malevolent force, with regards to the truth about fat:
Lesson Number One
Men are repulsed by the sight and feel (and smell) of fat chicks. All further lessons flow from this basic premise.
Lesson Number Two
A man with options to do so will choose a slender babe over a fat chick, EVERY TIME. (Rare exceptions prove the rule. Or: Don’t count on miracles, fatties.)
Lesson Number Three
A man married to a woman who has bloated into Hogzilla proportions will become increasingly unhappy, frustrated and resentful, and will express his displeasure with his fat wife in both passive and active ways.
Lesson Number Four
A fat wife is more harmful than is a fat husband to marital health and happiness. Fatness exacts a bigger toll on a woman’s sexual market value (and, therefore, marital market value) than it does on a man’s sexual and marital market value. Men are more visually oriented than women, and a fat man can compensate for his fatness by being attractive in other ways that women love. Fat women cannot compensate for their fatness except by losing weight and slimming down to a sexy, hourglass shape.
Lesson Number Five
Fat wives increase the odds of spousal adultery and marital dissolution. A wife who lets herself go on piles of cakes and cheesy poofs is primarily responsible for any infidelity her husband commits. Harsh, but true.
Lesson Number Six
A husband will be more likely to love, cherish and support his wife if she is thin. Life is conditional. Stop crying, and deal with it.
Lesson Number Seven
The cure for marital unhappiness and a lowering of the high risk of divorce among fat wife-healthy man couples is the fat wife losing weight until she has regained her attractive, slender, feminine shape. Marriage counselors will invariably bleat tired platitudes about “interpersonal dynamics”, “increasing perceived support”, and “unresolved masculinity issues”, and none of their solutions will work except to line their filthy pockets and turn wives against their husbands. They are worse than useless, because they lead women away from the one tried-and-true solution that *will* fix their marriages: losing weight.
I am so thankful there are individuals willing to speak the truth about this problem in our society, I don't see it as malevolent at all. I take no offense to what I've quoted here or in his post. Also, since I have been on the journey of ridding excess fat and repenting of my sinful gluttony, I have started to hear what RLB is saying when he speaks of his repulsion to obesity and excess fat. It is not shallow or merely judgement. Fat literally repulses him in a physiological manner. Couple a fat woman with being a feminist and he responds as though he is looking into the eyes of Satan.
I am ashamed of how ugly I must have at one point been to him. Fat and rebellious.
And yet he loved me.
Ladies, take this journey with me. You too will be in awe on almost a daily basis of the unbelievable benevolence, loyalty, and honor that resides in your husband's being. His tolerance and patience will be revealed to you and humble you. Men really are amazing creatures.
The virtue that counters the vice of gluttony is temperance. Temperance is more than abstaining from alcohol, it is the practice of self-restraint and self-denial.
ReplyDeleteOur culture is one of self-gratification. We buy what we cannot afford to the point of bankruptcy, we shamelessly fornicate to the point that venereal disease is epidemic, we eat to obesity, and drink & drug ourselves into brain damage. There is little or no self-restraint practiced across all socioeconomic
classes.
On the whole, obesity is but a symptom of a very ill society. It's going to take more than shaming to correct. I do not have any idea how to make temperance fashionable.
BTW I do love that you found the inspiration to practice temperance, and I am feeling inspired to take the journey with you. :)
One of the blessings of this temperance is how you feel after. Initially it is a challenge so it requires fortitude and faith. An understanding and a trust that what is on the other side feels better than the temporary good feeling of indulgence.
ReplyDeleteI believe that within the heart we know this, thus the guilt and self condemnation that follows indulgence. The pity is that the glutton is coddled and comforted away from the guilt. This is not helpful, though it feels "nice" and "supportive", it really is a disservice. And, as is true of all of our secular society's ills, the attempt to change the masses into believing there is nothing wrong with gluttony is devastating to the health of that society.
What needs to be lauded is the reward that comes swiftly once repeated temperance/restraint is practiced.
Like you, Lori, I struggle with how to make temperance fashionable. For pities sake, I got lambasted at Dalrock's place for daring to discuss biblical submission - that I'm "peddling" some sort of evil. Which is fine coming from a secular individual or a troll. This person wasn't.
For now, lets just keep on typing. :)
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteI really need to stop checking comments on my tiny phone. I hit the wrong button, SSM. Sorry.
Delete"OK, I'm going to get on the treadmill, I'd rather keep standing here at the stove eating leftover macaroni and cheese out of the pan, though."
-SSM
We did a family workout last night - the deck of cards. RLB was the dealer. Clubs = Burpees, Spades = Airsquats, Hearts = sit-ups, Diamonds = pushups. It took the kids and I an hour to finish but it went by fast and we're all a bit sore this morning. A great workout needing no equipment or videos.
A tiny phone or fat fingers?
DeleteBah dum bump...
DeleteA tiny phone, I actually have slender fingers. :)
ok, just checkin :D
Delete@SarahsDaughter on January 26, 2013 at 8:17 PM
ReplyDeleteWe did a family workout last night - the deck of cards. RLB was the dealer. Clubs = Burpees, Spades = Airsquats, Hearts = sit-ups, Diamonds = pushups. It took the kids and I an hour to finish but it went by fast and we're all a bit sore this morning. A great workout needing no equipment or videos.
You might want to check out the book You Are Your Own Gym by Marc Lauren (paperback, ISBN-13: 978-0345528582, $10.88 on Amazon). I've used its exercises myself even though I am, well, grey. One of the suggestions he has (not the program itself, but a change of pace) is "52 Pick ups":
Shuffle a deck of cards. Ace through 4 are Push exercises, 5 through 7 are Pull, 8 through 10 Core, face cards are Legs. Overturn one card at a time, do a set of any of the appropriate exercises in your ability group, then turn over the next card. Go through the whole deck, taking as little time between sets as possible.
Glad to hear your family's getting into fitness!
Thank you for the suggestion, grey_whiskers! And, yes, exercise is essential, even for the melanin challenged.
DeleteI agree that stigma is powerful --- it cannot change our wicked hearts, but it can at least rein in the excesses of our sin. (Although re-stigmatising premarital sex and sluttishness is apt to be far more beneficial for male-female relationships than just stigmatising obesity. Fatties can always slim down --- sluts can't regain their virginity. Plus, fatties do often still have some shame, whereas sluts have none.)
ReplyDeleteAnd good for you, SD, trying to shed the fat!
You'll find, when you have universal State healthcare like we do here in Europe, that the government will be very interested in reducing obesity among the population, since obesity-related disorders cost a fortune to treat. To try to reduce the burden on the NHS, the government here in the UK has spent countless millions, "educating" people that a diet of chips and ice-cream and swilling lager on the couch will make you fat, whereas a diet of fresh vegetables and fruit and taking walks will not.
Of course, these "education campaigns" have made no impact whatsoever, since even the most dim-witted of cretins knows this already --- but it enabled a few officious "do-gooders" to make a buck. A disproportionate number of them women, no doubt...
In the US the obesity rates are highest among the poor - those that already have state-funded health care. A very "first world problem" to have fat poor people.
DeleteThe blame is leveled on the restaurants and businesses in poor neighborhoods for selling junk food, rather than those who choose to consume it. Apparently we have food deserts that, unlike a real desert, make you fat.
My bet is we will see our do-gooders ban select calorie-laden foods and impose high taxes on others and never address the uncomfortable issues of personal responsibility and self-control.
While this is an interesting approach to the "obesity problem", I'm not sure it would work with most women. We all know men and women are motivated differently in general (perhaps RLB could speak to the different training tactics used with men vs. women in boot camp?), and of course there are different types of psycholgies at play within the genders as well.
ReplyDeleteI'd say there are two basic types of fat women. Type A *knows* they're unattractive and its members are either trying to lose weight or are at least dreaming about losing weight. I was a type A.
Visit the People of Walmart website to get some prime examples as to what I would call the type B's. These people have either convinced themselves that they "look good" or they sincerely just don't give a shit anymore. Shaming them won't work because they HAVE no sense of shame.
In my experiences as a Type A, I can tell you I was plenty disgusted with myself. I didn't need anyone else to tell me they found my fat disgusting because I already knew that too. Had I been publicly shamed everywhere I went, I would have likely become seriously depressed and dysfunctional, and in that kind of a state, I would NOT have had the energy or motivation to do what it takes to lose the weight. I probably would have just eaten more. It really is a vicious cycle.
As it was, I did my best to draw as little attention to myself as possible. I am still teaching myself not to dress so drably. I've never been much of a "social" shopper, but sometimes I do look at clothes with another former fatty friend of mine. We are always reminding each other to be daring enough to try on clothes that are actually stylish and colorful..."expand your horizons!" we tell each other :)
So how DID I finally get motivated, you ask? For me, it really *was* an internal thing. Similarly to telling a smoker how bad smoking is, he or she (short of something major like a heart attack scare) is NOT going to quit until he or she is ready and actually WANTS to quit. And not in the "Oh, I really *should* quit, I'd quit if there were a magic pill" kind of wanting. I mean the "I don't care what it takes or what I have to give up, I'm quitting!" kind of wanting. It was the same for me with losing weight. One January day I just sort of 'snapped' and told myself, "Enough is enough. I'm sick and tired of being fat and I'm going to do something about it. Today." And I did.
Northwoods is on to something here. As an ex-smoker, ex-Type A fat guy (saved by Paleo and weightlifting), I can tell you that being fat for a long time becomes kind of its own dreamworld where you realize very well you shouldn't keep sleeping but you can't bring yourself to wake up. Exactly like smoking. Then one day you snap, you realize it's either pull yourself up or start digging. You cry or punch a wall and bleed your knuckles or whatever the bucket-of-ice-water-alarm-clock is for you, then you shake everything off and start doing what you gotta do. In that regard, shaming fatties is not the same as shaming sluts. Some fatties don't give a shit, yes, but some don't even know how to get better. Someone will wake up, someone will retreat even more in his dreamworld. Someone more vulnerable will be deeply hurt. Some will take up Fat Acceptance and find in it a bulletproof rationalization machine. But the gluttony angle, I think, should be revised. It seems apparent to me that it's not about how much pot roast or treadmill time, but how much sugar. There are forces at work in our food industry that we are just beginning to understand, and they are probably responsible for many fat people being unable to return to normal. These are factors that must be understood and acted upon. Otherwise, the "eat less and run more" trope will only serve to alienate.
DeleteSeriously?!? "the one tried-and-true solution that *will* fix their marriages: losing weight." If only life were that simple.... This article is so wrong on so many levels i don't even know where to start. Mocking people because of their physical appearance is not charitable (a christian trait) at all. Gluttony is overindulging, weight gain can be caused by a myriad of issues, not necessarily including over-indulging. Also, shaming is about the worst of all motivators out there. It usually increases bad/self-destructive behavior...because feeling bad about yourself makes you want to act good? no, usually it's the other way around. So now you've lost a little weight and you are glad and you look at your past self with disgust? so now you tell everyone else in your shoes (wich is a false assumption since you can't know everything about their situation) that they should be disgusted with theirself too? Really, that's a great way to spread the love of Christ//#sarcasm.
ReplyDeleteJust doing what a leading health academic has called for us to do.
ReplyDeleteIt's okay, sweetie, someday someone will love you for who you are on the inside.
I don't care what is credentials are, a jerk is still a jerk. I love lots of people who are "overweight" (according to medical charts) some of them i think would do good to loose a little some of them i find "perfect" just the way they are. But my love is not dependant on their body shape/size. I assume their love for me is the same...i have been various sizes throughout my life. I have learned that that best way to have people love and respect me is to first show love and respect to myself. Personally, a man that would "shame" me for my weight does not deserve me: not my love, my support, my gifts and least of all access to my body!
DeleteAfricaturtle, look what you said: shaming is about the worst of all motivators out there. It usually increases bad/self-destructive behavior
DeleteThen you said this: a jerk is still a jerk
and
a man that would "shame" me for my weight does not deserve me: not my love, my support, my gifts and least of all access to my body
This is not rational.
You claim that shaming is the worst motivator, yet you dole it out to men. You claim it leads to bad/self destructive behavior. Why then is it okay for you to engage in it?
I enjoy watching "The Biggest Loser." And, isn't it amazing, part of their transformation process is learning how to love and respect themselves. The trainers help them do this by showing them how self sabotaging their gluttonous behaviors are.
The message that you want out there is that it doesn't matter, that the woman who cries herself to sleep at night, who punishes herself with overindulgence of food, who is nearing a health crisis and who is battling emotional turmoil is "perfect just the way she is." She knows that's not true. She knows it is tragic that she can not fit onto a roller coaster with her children, she knows that it is wrong to be so physically out of shape she can't run around with her children. She knows her husband is visual and is likely losing sexual attraction to her. She knows gluttony is a sin.
But you, evil doer, want to let her know it's okay, she's perfect.
When my children behave in a way that will hurt them (spiritually, physically, emotionally). I tell them to stop it. I discipline them. What an awful parent I would be to tell them they are perfect regardless of their harmful behavior.
SD: they have to rationalize it. I have one co-worker who is losing weight through discipline and an overhaul of her habits. She's losing weight quickly.
ReplyDeleteI have a friend that went for the surgery to hack her stomach. She's losing weight too but I like the former's long-term chances better. I've seen at least two examples where the surgery worked... for a while. Then they continued eating like crazy and put the weight back on. Damn shame.
Any blogger who thinks that reposting this complete and total bullshit -- especially one who is apparently a woman and an overweight woman at that -- is herself a repulsive, disgusting human being.
ReplyDeleteIf you did even a teensy bit of research, you would discover that losing weight and keeping it off is a herculean endeavor, and almost nobody succeeds in the long run. And the older you get, the more difficult it becomes.
FWIW, I am a woman. I am 64 years old. I weighed a whopping 98 pounds when I got married, about 43 years ago. I weight quite a bit more than that now. My husband likes me just fine, exactly the way I am. As do I.
Shame on you. Shame.
This lady has absolutely no clue what she is talking about. And she is taking purely with emotions and zero logic or facts. It is actually sad.
DeleteThat's nice, another fatty who would prefer to shame those who speak truth instead of coddling gluttonous sinners.
ReplyDeleteAnd no, dear, I am not overweight anymore. Looks like the teensy bit of research I did on how to correctly lose weight and change my life does work and it was no herculean effort. It was a choice to repent of my sins, and take responsibility for my behaviors that were harmful to my health. Quite simple actually.
I suspect, somehow, this whole post is a joke.
ReplyDeleteNope, but it sure has revealed how sacred this cow is.
ReplyDelete@MarcoP
ReplyDeleteIn that regard, shaming fatties is not the same as shaming sluts.
Could you expand on this? I ask because I could flip the script on everything you said about being a fat guy and the process of overcoming it and the rationalizations available for being fat and apply them to sexual immorality and being a slut.
I'm sure you could. But I suppose it depends on my idea that being a slut is more incurable than being a fatty. You can call a fatty fatty and she usually won't feel empowered, fierce and independent (unless she's into fat acceptance). Being a slut is a lot about attention whoring, and you can't change an attention whore by giving her more attention, even in the form of shame. Save for the few ones who take up fat acceptance, most fatties usually realize they've got a problem. Save for the delusional women (yes, it's mostly women) who talk about their "beautiful sexy rolls of fat", most fatties are miserable and are at least aware they should change. Sluts, on the other hand, can rationalize their whoring any number of ways and find plenty of help doing it. A fatty who shed weight will have a better life and be better for those around him; a slut who repented will still be unable to love only one man and stand by him as a good wife should. Fat is only fat deep; slut goes to the soul.
ReplyDeleteOh, okay, sins are ranked. Some can be overcome and some not. Yes, that's right...carry on.
ReplyDeleteFor a "Christian" you are lacking in empathy and understanding. No wonder people flee from religion. It's folks and attitudes like yours that make them want no part of Christianity.
ReplyDeleteAnd what would an empathy filled post look like. Please do direct me to where you have written an empathy filled essay that has proven effective in encouraging married Christian women to lose weight.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing about an individual that can change a person's faith in Jesus Christ. Christianity is not a club, it is a personal relationship. The words you voluntarily read on my personal blog have nothing to do with that relationship.
As a so called Christian, it is your duty to lead a life and walk a walk that creates a want in others to find the peace and relationship you (are supposed) to have with Christ. By posting such venomous and hateful drivel, you are not doing that.
ReplyDeleteAlso, any woman who has a Christian man should never have to worry about him straying whether she is heavy or not. In sickness and in health. Now, if you want to say that the poor, weak-willed men are ruled purely by animal urges and their sex organs, then that is an entirely different story.
And, why would I need to point you to any article I might write? We are talking about you and your spread of misogynistic and unhealthy views.
ReplyDeletePeople are people. Some are thin, some are heavy. It is not always due to overeating or binging on doughnuts (how uneducated to even post). The real issue is, why does it bother you? Should you be shamed for your faults? I am positive that you have some. Maybe you would be a better person if we all shamed you.
The words on your blog show just how little you know Jesus Christ. He didn't shame or mock anyone but the religious. How dare you bring condemnation on anyone. Judgement is His and His alone. What do you say to the woman who eats because she was molested? What do you say to the used to be skinny woman whose husband cheated multiple times? What do you say to the woman with health issues? What would you say to Jesus who stood in front of a sinful woman and didn't let a single stone be cast upon her. He protected her from shame. The things you said in this blog are sinful. I pray that Christ convicts your heart.
ReplyDeletewhether she is heavy or not. In sickness and in health
ReplyDeleteCareful there Anon, you are equating sickness to being heavy...that's shaming.
Now, if you want to say that the poor, weak-willed men are ruled purely by animal urges and their sex organs, then that is an entirely different story.
Yes, because in your feminist pig mind man shaming is always welcome.
Should you be shamed for your faults
Isn't that what you're attempting to do? Moron.
What do you say to the woman who eats because she was molested?
Well in that case, she should definitely keep on eating. She should surely contribute to her emotional distress, remain a victim and add health challenges to it.
What do you say to the used to be skinny woman whose husband cheated multiple times?
I was not aware men cheating causes obesity. Another victim. Nothing she can do. Eat away.
What do you say to the woman with health issues?
Go to the doctor and don't compound them with gluttony.
He protected her from shame.
You are clueless. "Go and sin no more" is the ultimate admonishment. SIN baby, he called her out on her SIN.
It is obvious that you aren't smart or nice. Lol. Actually, you sound much like a troll, trying to play at being a Christian.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't the one saying men were or are weak-willed, sex controlled fiends. That is your implication. If you have any Christ like tendencies, they must be hiding somewhere.
Also, to address your comment to the poster in regards to the cheating and eating...if a fat woman makes a man cheat, why wouldn't a cheating man make a woman eat? Seems like it would be logical and reasonable. Oh! I'm sorry, you probably don't think that way, do you? Thanks for the laughs. You are quite a laugh.
Oh, and, are you Jesus? To call out sin? Have a read through Matthew 7 and Ephesians 4.
ReplyDeleteI find it sad that there is no grace offered in this post/article at all....just complete pride and selfishness.
ReplyDeleteGrace to whom? My commentary in the post is a personal testimony. Your comment doesn't make sense. Pride in what? Selfishness?
ReplyDeleteI don't have an overreaction to a blog, I voluntarily read, talking about how disgusting fat is. How is that prideful or selfish?
Fat is disgusting. Look at it. Look at cellulite. It's gross. No matter how many times I look at my own fat in the mirror, I have the same reaction to it - I'd like it to not be there. Why is being honest about that such an issue? There are a lot of things in this world that are gross to look at. I don't have an emotional connection to it. It just is. The color red is red - all the time. My eyes are a beautiful blue - every time I look in the mirror. When I look around my home and see dust or dirt, I clean it. No emotional involvement. It just is. My fat accumulation is from excess eating and past laziness. Not an emotional issue. It just is. My lab results showed high cholesterol. I'm not emotional about it, but I am personally responsible for it. And, because it is my own personal responsibility, I can change it. I am healthier now, I feel good and find my body more pleasant to look at having done so. I have taken responsibility for over eating and my laziness and changed it. And, I believe the women who read my blog are capable of doing the same. If they are not, I am not the problem.
The woman who linked my blog is far more culpable for any bad feelings women have reading here if they are not mentally capable of discerning what will offend them or not. She drew attention to it, playing on women's weaknesses to seek drama and get upset. Certainly you all have the agency to turn the channel on the T.V. when something is on you don't want to watch, don't you? Quit acting like sorry pathetic victims. If you don't like what you're reading here...don't read here.
Sweetie, don't let them get to you and distract you from what is important. You did what many of them couldn't; you had the willpower to do wonders to your health.
DeleteKeep up the hard work! : )
Extending grace to yourself is certainly something that you have taken great responsibility for and that is wonderful that you feel more value to life than you did before when you were larger. However, shaming anyone in order to hope for change is a disgrace.
ReplyDeleteMy post does not address anyone specifically. Therefore, when a woman reads it, she can assess for herself if my words apply to her or not. It is ludicrous for a woman to expect to read blogs such as mine, voluntarily and have it offend her delicate sensibilities.
ReplyDeleteI'm not offended and I didn't read your blog with any personal intent of attack upon myself. But, just because you didn't name names doesn't change the ugly motives of shame.
ReplyDeletePlease explain Roissy's motives. Then explain my motives. Your psychic abilities should be enlightening. No further comments from you will be permitted until you have thoroughly explained these two things. So, charge up your crystal ball and proceed. Either that or retract what you've said.
ReplyDelete*sigh*
ReplyDeleteI have been overweight before. I have been obese before. I am currently neither. Was it fat shaming that lifted away the pounds?
No. If anything, fat shaming made my weight increase because it made me unhappy and I want to eat more when I'm unhappy. You take a person who is an emotional eater and then set off all kinds of negative emotions in them, you're not going to help them lose the weight. I didn't want it, but I seemed unable to shake it. I'd try so hard, restricting my eating fiercely, only to fall short for maybe 15 minutes and undo all the world I'd just done.
What helped me lose the weight? Trying a wide variety of tactics in losing weight, one of which finally worked. The truly funny thing is that the tactic which actually worked had nothing to do with wanting to lose weight and everything to do with wanting to stop eating emotionally and binge eating. I wanted to change the way I ate, not what the scale said, and I lost weight.
Essays like the one you are so glad for don't help on any kind of a large scale. If they did, we wouldn't have the obesity epidemic because nothing that he's said is new or unique. Fat women get told this overtly and covertly all the freaking time.
Also, any man who is going to leave me if I'm fat is a man I want to lose as soon as possible. Sooner or later I'm going to stop being "attractive," even if the ultimate cause is nothing more than aging. I'd rather not wait several decades before realizing that he's not going to love me if I'm not a "slender babe." If I thought that I had to be fat to avoid such men, I'd purposely become fat, or avoid all men. I will not tolerate that kind of absurdity.
You take a person who is an emotional eater and then set off all kinds of negative emotions in them, you're not going to help them lose the weight
DeleteAnd people such as these seek out blogs with titles like this one and read voluntarily to get themselves more upset? Look, I claim no responsibility for stupidity like that.
Essays like the one you are so glad for don't help on any kind of a large scale
So? They helped me. Yes, I might be quite rare. Chances are good those who frequent my blog are as well.
If I thought that I had to be fat to avoid such men, I'd purposely become fat, or avoid all men. I will not tolerate that kind of absurdity.
Good for you, might I suggest shaving your head as well.
And people such as these seek out blogs with titles like this one and read voluntarily to get themselves more upset? Look, I claim no responsibility for stupidity like that.
ReplyDeleteSo, you post an article that advocates shaming fat people on a universal scale, and it's my fault for reading it? If you didn't want people to read it, then why did you write it?
Furthermore, I didn't actually know what your article was about before I read it. Maybe it was talking about doing your part against fat shaming. I discovered what your article was about by reading it.
However, 1) I am not upset. 2) You are not advocating for voluntary, sought out shaming. If you were, I wouldn’t care. It’s your body, you can do whatever you want with it. Not my business. Unfortunately, article you posted, the one you agree with and are grateful for, is advocating for societal shaming. That’s shaming that will be inflicted on fat people without their consent no matter where they go. That’s what it means to do something on a societal level.
So? They helped me. Yes, I might be quite rare. Chances are good those who frequent my blog are as well.
The article is not advocating selectively shaming people, it's advocating shaming fat people at a societal level. If you are in line with that article, whether or not you are an exception makes a big difference. Advocating universal social policies that is based on something that could be generally harmful and quite rarely helpful is a very bad idea.
Good for you, might I suggest shaving your head as well.
Aaand you've missed my point. My point is that I don't have to choose between avoiding all men (or even most men) and being overweight. Men, despite what this article indicated, are not widely so shallow that they leave their partners when their partners stop being attractive. This is why most of the women that I know who are married are not “slim babes.”
Of course, maybe it’s fine to advocate for the position that it’s fine for men to leave their wives for being unattractive. Maybe my view is losing and at least part of the reason divorce has risen so much in our culture is because we've indicated that it's okay for a man to leave a woman because she's unattractive. After all, under such a model, it makes perfect sense for a man to leave his wife because she's old. She's fat? Unattractive, leave her. She got breast cancer and had a mastectomy (and lost all her hair!)? Unattractive, leave her. She's gotten all wrinkly? Unattractive, leave her. I reject such a model, but I suppose not all people do.
In all seriousness, why would you even say stuff like this “shaving your head” comment”? There are women who actually lose their hair against their will. We should be working towards a society that views these women as lovable for their own sakes, not women who can never find love, must get ineffective medical treatments done in an effect to change it, or wear wigs all the time.
As another note, I don't see anything in that article or any of the articles it links to that provide any kind of actual evidence that men in general prefer long hair. I see a few men saying that men generally prefer long hair, but no actual data. If we are even going to indicate that it's somehow moral to feed into the idea that women are responsible for men not wanting them if their physical appearance doesn't measure up (and I am not down with that at all), then we should at least do so with some kind of actual evidence. This, of course, also applies to the "fat is ugly" assertion. How fat? Ugly to whom? Across what cultures? During what time periods? If we don't have the answers to these, we can't say if a preference for a "slim babe" is based on cultural encouragement of this or an actual inborn tendency. If it's based on cultural encouragement, then this isn't really about how women look; it’s about what we say is and is not acceptable in how a woman looks.
"Of course, maybe it’s fine to advocate for the position that it’s fine for men to leave their wives for being unattractive"
Delete----------------
Unfortunately Eristae, many Christian men in this situation don't "leave their wives for being unattractive." Men like me, for instance.
What we do instead is die a little bit inside every day, watching the woman we love become obese, and wishing she would respond to our subtle and 'supportive' (*sigh*) hints that she should try to get back in shape. We go to work and provide for our families and wish that our wife would look after her physical fitness, like so many wives we see out there with other men. We try our best to 'turn off' the impulse of physical attraction to lean females, so we can have harmony in our home. We (some of us) masturbate more than we'd like, because we are trying to substitute in vain for the intimacy that we miss so much, and that we used to enjoy so freely with our wives.
My wife sleeps on the floor now. She says it's because the mattress is bothering her back, but it never used to bother her when we were first married. She behaves lovingly and affectionately toward me at all other times, so I don't think she is rejecting me, but I do think she is ashamed of her body, and she is becoming more physically removed from me in this and other ways.
To be honest, I fear for the future of our family. I don't know how long we can continue on this course. And even if we do, will it be a fulfilling experience for us and for our children? The sad truth is that desire and intimacy with your spouse is part of the bedrock foundation of a marriage, and it affects all other aspects of your union, much like ripples in a pond.
You wrote
Delete"I do think she is ashamed of her body"
That is very well possible. My wife was once rather obese (she fixed that on her own to her eternal credit) and told me about these feelings , much later of course.
WRT to the dynamic of your family : You could try to work along the lines shown by Athol Kay ( Married Man sex Life) . It is hard to do but it works.
http://marriedmansexlife.com/
Deletenk,
You highlight something that is very common among women - that she told you these feelings after she made changes.
It isn't that women aren't aware of being ashamed of their bodies. They know that if they confess it, to anyone, they might be told to implement change. That's why I seek to bust through the lies. Women try to lie to themselves (which creates a depressed state) and they lie or avoid the issue with others.
And I forgot to say that I feel the need that you need to look no farther than the article you posted here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hast.114/full goes against what Roissy says.
ReplyDeleteFrom the article (Salient point in italics):
"Why is obesity said to be different from smoking? Three reasons are common: it is wrong to stigmatize people because of their health conditions; wrong to think it will work well, or at all, with obesity; and counterproductive with the obese because of evidence that it worsens rather than improves their condition."
...
Stigmatization, we have been told, is counterproductive.
The article lists a number of possible ways to reduce obesity, but none of them even come close to Roissy's "Lessons."
I love it when comments are longer than the OP. You are free to start your own blog, dear. Then you can advocate everything you'd like.
ReplyDeleteMen are visual. They are also very attentive to what makes their wives upset. There are many married wives who have no idea how physically repulsive they have become to their husbands. And how having neglected their appearance is felt as disrespect (obviously health issues are different - though I know women with severe health issues who still maintain their physical appearance). Our culture at large has embraced this notion that men should love their wives for "who they are" and it's used as an excuse to cover gluttony and laziness. However, no matter what society says should be, it will not change what men find visually appealing.
It is my intent to wake women up to what respecting their husbands actually means to him.
When a woman chooses to continue gluttonous and lazy behavior, there's usually something very ugly on the inside. Thus, loving her for "who she is" becomes quite challenging. They usually become just as hideous on the inside. Whereas, it is proven that exercise and healthy eating promote health and well being. You'd have to be an idiot to deny this.
Here's a good way to tell what you're husband's opinion is, ask him which scenario he feels respected
a) when you choose healthy food and exercise, style your hair the way he likes, and wear the clothes he likes seeing you in
b) when you eat whatever is quick, refuse to exercise, style your hair the way you want paying no attention to what turns his eye, and wear sweatpants and baggy shirts all the time.
If you don't care about respecting him, you are rebelling to God's commands for marriage.
From the link:
ReplyDeleteOne obvious target would be the large number of people who are unaware that they are overweight. They need, to use an old phrase, a shock of recognition. Only a carefully calibrated effort of public social pressure is likely to awaken them to the reality of their condition
I don't have a clue how you are interpreting this differently than I am.
I think some people (women in this case) can simply not remove themselves from taking a post like this personally. It IS about them and YOU are making them feel BAD! Once their feelings have been hurt, then it is all over and then rational discussion stops and the "love me just the way I am" starts, how DARE you JUDGE!!!!!!11
ReplyDeleteI would ask any woman, if their husband decided one day to quit working because he was tired of working and stayed home and only did the things that he enjoyed doing, would they be attracted to him?
If you followed their "fat wife" reasoning, he is STILL lovable, so they should love him and not ask him to go back to work and provide for his family. Even after several years of him making the decision to not provide for his family, having them thrown out of the house, losing their car(s), etc they should still love him for who he is.
In reality, it would only take a few days for a wife to stomp her foot and tell her husband to get back out there an earn a living and if he didn't he not only doesn't love her he is worse then an unbeliever.
You are taking what is important to a spouse and spitting on it and showing disrespect by not even trying to do what is needed to make yourself attractive.
As to whatever commenter here said that men are not always attracted to physically fit women, that must be wife Playboy, Maxim and girlie sites in general are doing so poorly in sales.
Never mind the fact that a married Christian man would be legally and financially raped if he left his wife because she was fat... so they stay married. Really what choice do they have?
I am going to start my reply with a disclaimer of sorts: I am a silent reader of this blog, usually. I am a sensitive person and anyone who thinks this is a weakness is an idiot. Also, when I write, my grammar etc is not perfect. Anyone who wants to claim that this makes me less than intelligent can take a flying leap. :) I'm sad that I have to start this way, but this crowd is pretty quick to attack.
ReplyDeleteI am this person: And people such as these seek out blogs with titles like this one and read voluntarily to get themselves more upset? Look, I claim no responsibility for stupidity like that.
I am this person: a woman who has bloated into Hogzilla proportions
I am this person: gluttonous sinners.
I am also confused by how my friends now view me. I never knew you felt this way about me. Or that you think my husband is holding on for dear life to our marriage because of how I look. While this blog may not have been written about me, it obviously pertains to me.
Hi hon, I respond to this here: http://sarahsdaughterblog.blogspot.com/2013/04/regarding-fat-shaming-post-and-my-dear.html
DeleteSarahsDaughter - what you are talking about is universal, indiscriminate bullying of an already ostracized group of HUMAN BEINGS (sounds a bit like Hitler, or Paul Pot, don't you think?). You must be very PROUD of yourself (isn't pride another deadly sin, just like gluttony?). Now that you can tell all those "inferior" & "morally abhorrent" people what to do, where would humanity be without you or your ilk? So, tell me, oh great learned & pontificating guru of weight loss / "self improvement", do you propose that I should be publicly shamed & bullied because I am a long time sufferer of Cushings? I bet you're just itching to tell me to get to a doctor? Well, why don't you take a trip down into Africa & see if you can have a word with our doctors here, who seem to think that I am an unpaid test subject for the various combination of drugs that they have experimented on me with over the past 20 years? I am positive that you will be able to shame them into delivering quality health care (which I pay for in full). Maybe you & your acolytes should start shaming women with hirsutism next? The 1 & only benefit of having over productive pituitary & adrenal glands is that I am not just fat, I am very muscular & have exceptional physical strength. I was never bullied by my peers, no one in their right mind would dare to try shame me for my appearance. The people who inflicted the most damage upon me with their misguided attempts at tough love (shaming) were my mother & my sister. 2 little barbie dolls who are already paying the price for their cruelty & indifference.
ReplyDeleteNow that you can tell all those "inferior" & "morally abhorrent" people what to do
ReplyDeleteThe only place in this post and the comments where these words occur is in your comment, yet you put them in quotes. Projection at its finest.
So, tell me, oh great learned & pontificating guru of weight loss / "self improvement", do you propose that I should be publicly shamed & bullied because I am a long time sufferer of Cushings?
I am not a guru of weight loss nor have I ever claimed as much, right now I am a student. Public shaming should be the least of your worries. Seeking out websites to get upset about puts into question your mental stability, its something I would never advise considering the medical condition you are already suffering.
I bet you're just itching to tell me to get to a doctor?
Or perhaps use your google tab. I've learned a lot about your condition with a few searches here. Keep up on the studies and treatments available. Don't give in to despair. For example, there is a rare question about Celiac disease that I can't answer (a disease that affects 1 in 130 people as opposed to Cushings that affects around 15 in a million). The reason for that is my daughter has the disease and I became a student of it. I read everything I can get my hands on about it - but that's just me.
Maybe you & your acolytes should start shaming women with hirsutism next?
Again, another condition that I would take the time to learn all I can about and not embrace being a victim. I don't believe that is a good choice no matter the condition someone suffers.
The people who inflicted the most damage upon me with their misguided attempts at tough love (shaming) were my mother & my sister. 2 little barbie dolls who are already paying the price for their cruelty & indifference.
As I suspected, you have much more going on than the medical condition you suffer. Things that will affect your health and quite obviously affect how you deal with the world. Unforgiveness, holding grudges, coveting, and vindictiveness will all have negative effects.
Marilyn Monroe's Real Size
ReplyDeleteA lot of jealous lying fat girls like to say that Marilyn Monroe was fat. Marilyn's waist was 23" -24" and her hips were 35". She stood 5'5.5" and weighed 115 lbs.
Fat people are quite disgusting. The biggest lying fat trash are the ones in the fat acceptance movement.
ReplyDeleteThe nastiest of the nasty are The Fierce Fatties They are a bunch of lying hateful slime. They need a trolling. Be clever!
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteBeyond fat being a turn-off for most of the population, which it is, one problem I have with all this fatnes, and especially the concept of fat acceptance, is who is supposed to really be paying for all this metabolic syndrome? Very few people who are fat are metabilocally normal. The road we are heading down with all this is unaffordable. Who is supposed to be paying for all of this? Now, with Omama Care, it isn't morally right that we are forced to buy health insurance and subsidize all these fatties on our dime. I contol my weight since I can put it on just like anyone else by avoiding sugar, grains, and I simply eat real meat, cheese, eggs, nuts and plenty of produce. It is work, and some personal responsibility. Myself, I do not socialize with fat women as a woman because I have nothing in common with them as a woman. And, I am expecially fed up with having to share my airline seat with fatties as if being fat gives them the right to squeeze me so far into the side of the plane that my legs dangerously swell up, something that never happens to me otherwise. If education apparently is not working, maybe fat shaming is all we have left in this sociey because being nice via education is not working.
ReplyDeleteGood grief, poor blog owner. Please ignore these nasty and ugly people bashing you for stating your views. They're only living in denial : ) Good for you that you did something about your weight, unlike them.
ReplyDelete